Don't waste your time throwing back that sponge crab.

[fisheyed]

Tom you posted this on tidal fish last week ( with very little response unforunately) and when presented with questions you stopped responding.  I am interested in this.  The study sent my red flag alarm screaming.   PC you said it and you credentials speak for themselves.  How many more crabs will be taken from the water vs. protected in the new closed area 1/9 th the current size?  I understand you have the best in mind for the bay but I hope the commitee uses more information to make it's decision.

[Tom Powers]

First PC, etc. are correct, I was not specific enough in my original post.  The real intent was the major harvest technique in VA (~85% of the hard crabs) and on the order of >90% of the sponge crabs which is crab pots.  I did not intend for it to apply to folks using a string and bait, who can simply shake the sponge crabs off before breaks the surface.  All indications that I got from the scientist that spoke at the committee meeting is that eggs on crabs removed from the water for any length of time die.  I will further research that matter.  Also some of the folks have contacted me privately and I told them that I would like copies of contridicting studies or for them to have the scientists on the other side of this coin contact me so that I can get their input into the system.

I do not have specific numbers on the number protected, etc. The basis of the asumption is that the crabs that are currently being thrown back by the majority harversters have dead eggs and are soon to be dead, as such they are a waste of the resource.  If someone has specific studies to refute that please send me a bmail with the info.  Remeber that the handling conditions are more like that described earlier in this thread and most dark sponge crabs occur during the heat of the summer.

The 100 square mile area that is proposed is in addition to the 900 square miles that are currently closed, or 1000 square miles total.  It is effectely a closed area because of the concentration of dark sponge crabs. The deal there is to not see an increase in the mortality of sponge crabs because of this change in regulation.  The area south of Cape Henry currently fits that description.  Again if there are other areas that are also de-facto closed because of the concentration of dark sponge crabs please let me know.

Tom

[R D]

You should get out more often,dredging is elimitated.

[crabtracker]

and this post is almost 5 years old.

[Ronster]

The forums are being overrun...   

[crabtracker]

The forums are being overrun...   

by the crazies!

[Mikie]

by the crazies!

I would bet it's more likely to be one crazy with multiple names and email addresses.

[crabtracker]

a Timaeus or Sighansen by any other name would be as annoying.

[crabster2]

So let's look at the sandard practices by a commercial crabbers.  My experience is being on the boat of a one man operation.  A two man operation may be more efficient. 

First you start working down the line of pots pulling the pot in; dump the bait; open the top; dump the crabs into the cull box (A cull box holds about a bu to two of crabs); bait the pot; throw it back over; move on to the next pot. Total time maybe 2 minutes.   4 to 10 pots later (8 to 20 minutes) when the cull box is pretty full, they stop pulling pots and cull the crabs; putting the #1 crabs in one basket, #2s in another basket; the female crabs in the third basket and the regulatory discards go back over the side.  Time to cull 5 maybe 10 minutes.

So the crabs on the top of the cull box (last in) were out of the water maybe 3 to 5 minutes the ones on the bottom 15 to 25 minutes.  Now maybe I got the times off by a few minutes but you get the point. 

My personal experience with two crab pots (4 if I have a buddy) in a small boat is much the same as the commercial crabber.  Pull the pot up dump them into the cull box (usually a 5 gallon bucket or a Bu Basket); rebait the pot and set it back over.  Sometimes I will sort through the throwing the good crabs back into keeper basket and the culls back before I pull the next pot.  Sometimes I will wait until I am done.  I use a row boat so it is usually about 20 minutes to pull the crabs out of 4 pots (hey I don't have to make any money).  Total time out of the water 3 to 20 minutes.  If I am pulling the pots in for the day I will just dump the bait and leave the crabs in until I get back to the shore which is about 20 minutes.

The vast majority of the commercial crabs caught in VA are caught in conventional commercial pots that are about 2 feet on the side.  The crabs MUST come ouf of the water to empty a commercial style pot.  This is not a trot line.  It is not a crab trap where you can just open it up and let a few go (although I don't know how one would do that.)

I am only repeating what I was told at the meeting.  They did not provide a detailed report at the meeting nor have I seen one.  I would imagine that such a report will be provided at the Aug. or Sept advisory Committee meeting or at the Aug or Sept Commission meeting.  ProCrabber, I followed the link on your post and sent you an email with my contact information as well as that of  the researcher (Rom Lipcius) at VIMS.  By all means contact him and provide him with information on the survivorablity of blue crab eggs and the crabs when sponge crabs are handled as I described above.  If his conclusions are wrong and there is other research to refute it please email them to me and I will make sure that they are considered at the advisory committee.

What I did not mention was that they did find a way to have the larva live but it meant special handling proceedures (probably much like you describe) that are way different then the normal handling proceedures that one could expect a commercial crabber to follow and continue to make a living.  They were working with the MD lab as that is who they were originally providing stock to.



Tom

Are "one man" potting operations even allowed in MD any more?

[Mr. Ray III]

Are "one man" potting operations even allowed in MD any more?

 

[Ronster]

Are "one man" potting operations even allowed in MD any more?

I know a company called "One Man and His Cougars Crabbing LLC".   Does that count?   

[CRABGUY]

ITS UNDER CONTROLL SORRY

[R D]

Best post on the subject yet.

[Crabs_R_Yummy]

interesting, good info