Its Sunday Stupid! Please Read this one.

[Joe Crabs]

Crabguy, I never read such a bunch !@#$ in my life though it is typical of a govt. response. Who are the advisers? Well sorry to hear it guys, but they just don't care about the little guy. Classical Govt. wait till next year  BS. They shot that down pretty quick didn't they. Some people probably will get upset but it sounds like SOMEONE'S POCKETS GOT LINED AGAIN. And that SPONGE CRAB LAW is the MOST STUPID ambiguos counter productive law I have ever seen. Well he is your governor if there is enough of you guys upset you know how to deal with it. There are certainly more recreational votes.

Jack, I hope you start seeing more sooks.

And no my caps are not stuck.

[CRABGUY]

YUP BUNCH OF SMOKE BLOWING

[Joe Crabs]

It's too bad Crabguy, sounds like they already made a decision before they went in there.

[kingcrabber]

C'mon JC....ya think they already had a deal cut?no,say it ain't so ..you mean those politicians would lie to us? ...why'just the other night I saw one kissing a baby...and you think that kinda guy would lie?

[jack1747]

Got this just now.



   Thank you for your recent email concerning the "no crabbing on Sunday" rule.  I have responded to others on this issue as has Jack Travelstead, Chief, Fisheries Management Division, Virginia Marine Resources Commission.  Both Mr. Travelstead and I believe that the Commission may be willing to make adjustments to the Sunday Rule after the new blue crab stock assessment is available later this year.

      Several reasons for maintaining the Sunday prohibition were noted by the public during a recent hearing.  Although these reasons were, no doubt, considered by the Commission members, I believe they also considered that later this year a new stock assessment of the blue crab will be available from the scientific community.  That assessment will provide the Commission with the information on the status and health of the blue crab resource in the Chesapeake Bay.  After the new assessment is completed, and depending upon its findings, the Commission may willingly reconsider the regulatory changes you and others desire.

      I encourage you to contact the Marine Resources Commission in early 2005 to receive the results of the blue crab assessment and to discuss once again the changes you favor.  Please feel free to share this information with others during your web discussions.

                  Sincerely,
                  W. Tayloe Murphy, Jr.


Zelda M. Hardy
Special Assistant
Office of the Secretary of Natural Resources
202 North Ninth Street, 7th Floor
Richmond, Virginia 23219
zelda.hardy@governor.virginia.gov
804-786-0044

[jack1747]

After giving this rule more thought, I think its really stupid.  The pots are still out there on Sunday.  The crabs are still crawling into them.  

[Joe Crabs]

Jack they have alot of dumb rules down there, don't get me started.

[procrabber]

the point of having sunday off in the commercail industy is to lower the number of hours someone can crab and therefore lowering the total number of crabs that can be caught, but for recs... this makes no sense?!

[jack1747]

comm's can fish their pots on Sunday

[CRABGUY]

I CAN RUN MY POTS ON SUNDAY
SO CAN MY SON
AND DAUGHTER
THE WIFE TOO
THATS 8

[jack1747]

I CAN RUN MY POTS ON SUNDAY
SO CAN MY SON
AND DAUGHTER
THE WIFE TOO
THATS 8

however, technically they have to be in the boat with you. if you go to more than 2 pots, alone, with the man watching your gona get a fine.

[CRABGUY]

YEA BUT I (WE) CAN STILL CRAB
SO WHATS THE POINT OF BUYING THE 5 POT

ALSO I CAN HAVE 2 POTS, THEY MUST BE MAEKED W/ MY LAST 4# AND "R"
SO IF I GET A 5 POT I CAN STILL HAVE 2 MORE  THAT I CAN RUN ON SUNDAY AS LONG AS I ONLY PULL 2
WHO IS TO SAY WHAT 2 ARE THE RECREATIONAL (2POT) ONES???
THE MARKINGS ARE THE SAME
I LOVE LOOPEHOLES

[jack1747]

There are some that say that even those who use the two pot exemption have to mark their pots with R####.  I still have not figured that one out  as the rule about marking pots says the "licensee’s" numbers.  There is no “licensee” when you fish under the exemption.

There is a law somewhere that says the most an individual can use (i.e. have in the water) is 5 per person.  So having 5 plus 2 for Sunday does not cut it if they are all in the water at the same time.

So what I think is that you would have to pull up three of your pots on Saturday, and your other two pots are your exemption pots and you are fishing based on state code which allows ANYONE to work 2 pots for personal use only at any time.  State code does not say that licensed recreational crabber are not eligible for that exemption.

Next is the fuzzy part. . . IF you took your two kids out on Sat. AND you changed the buoys on three of your pots so that they had your kid’s numbers on them, (you could even add another pot for that matter) then you could take your two kids out with you on Sunday and work 5 or 6 pots.

Tom

CG, I checked into this and found Tom's post to be correct.  (as usual)

So a rec license gives me and Da Boss 10 pots.  

The point is, imo, the pots are still out thier even if u cant tend them on Sunday.  They, the pots, are still catching crabs.  What I would like to see is an exemption to the Sunday rule for water front property owners.  My thinking is the Sunday law would still cut the harvest of crabs by the rec crabbers who could not set pots on Saturday and pick them up on Sunday(weekenders).  It (exemption to Sunday rule) would allow wfp owners to fish the pots Sunday because the pots are going to be there anyway and are just going to be harvesting the same crabs on Monday morning.

[CRABGUY]

Any person desiring to take or catch finfish or shellfish for recreational purposes in the tidal waters of Virginia must first obtain the appropriate gear license (See Exemptions and Annual License Fees below). Gear licenses can be purchased from any Virginia Marine Resources Commission (VMRC) licensing agent, except that crab pound/trap licenses can only be obtained from the district marine patrol officer. All licenses are valid for a calendar year and expire December 31 in the year issued. License tags for boats using crab pots and/or trotlines must be fastened at a conspicuous place on the starboard side of the boat or on the boat's mast; for crab pounds, the tags must be fastened to one of the offshore stakes [Code 28.2-225, 28.2-226.1, 28.2-234, 28.2-300, Regulation 4 VAC 20-60-20].

Gear Marking and Reporting Requirements

Buoys of any crab pot, eel pot, gill net or ordinary crab trotline, and an offshore stake of any crab trap, used for recreational purposes, shall be marked legibly with the licensee's last 4 numbers of his/her social security number or driver's license number, preceded with the letter "R"; these figures must be at least 1 inch in height. [4 VAC 20-670-40].



EXEMPTIONS - The following activities are exempt from the licensing requirements:

1. Taking by dip net, hand line, or two crab pots (or two collapsible crab traps), as much as one bushel of hard crabs and two dozen peeler crabs in any one day for personal use aboard any vessel.  If crabbing occurs from shore (crabs are not possessed on a vessel) the possession limit is one bushel and two dozen peeler crabs per person per day.

WHAT IM SAYING IS WHO SAYS YOU CANT BE A RECREATIONAL 2POT CRABBER ON SUNDAY
JUST PICK 2
MARK THE 2 AS SUCH W/SUNDAY ON THE BOUY.
SOMEONE SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS THAT IF YOU HAVE A 5 POT LIC. YOU CANT RUN  ANY POTS ANY WHERE
ON SUNDAY
ITS A PRETTY BIG BAY  

[CRABGUY]

JUST ONE STEP FURTHER
W/A 5 POT LIC AND 5 IN THE WATER ON SUNDAY NOT TENDED
THAT MEANS YOU CANT EVEN CRAB OFF A PIER ON SUNDAY W/ TRAPS

[jack1747]

4 VAC 20-670-30. GEAR RESTRICTIONS.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to use more than five crab pots or more than two eel pots when licensed for recreational purposes under this chapter.


http://www.mrc.state.va.us/fr670.htm

[CRABGUY]

4 VAC 20-670-30. GEAR RESTRICTIONS.

B. It shall be unlawful for any person to use more than five crab pots or more than two eel pots when licensed for recreational purposes under this chapter.


http://www.mrc.state.va.us/fr670.htm

OK DEFINE "USE"
IF THE POTS ARE IN THE WATER ON SUNDAY ...............
YOU CANT USE TEND, REMOVE CRABS FROM THE TRAP UNDER THE LAW...........
 SO YOU CANT COUNT THOSE 5
IF YOU CANT TEND THEM YOU CANT USE THEM
ARE YOU REQUIRED TO REMOVE THE POTS FROM THE WATER ON SAT AT MIDNIGHT


P.S. IM NOT LICENSED AND I LIKE LIKE THAT
JACK UNDER YOUR LICENSE DO YOU HAVE TO REPORT YOUR CATCH?

[jack1747]

JACK UNDER YOUR LICENSE DO YOU HAVE TO REPORT YOUR CATCH?

No

[CRABGUY]

YOU SURE???



Gear Marking and Reporting Requirements

Buoys of any crab pot, eel pot, gill net or ordinary crab trotline, and an offshore stake of any crab trap, used for recreational purposes, shall be marked legibly with the licensee's last 4 numbers of his/her social security number or driver's license number, preceded with the letter "R"; these figures must be at least 1 inch in height. [4 VAC 20-670-40].

Any person catching finfish or shellfish using a recreational gillnet, cast net, dip net, crab pot, crab trap, crab trotline, eel pot, or any other recreational license established by Regulation 4-VAC-20-670 must report annually on forms provided by the Commission: the weight and species harvested, location of harvest, days fished and amount of gear used (click here for downloadable form; if you get a prompt for a password click cancel)  [4 VAC 20-670-40].

[Tom Powers]

Actually there is a loophole in the law.  Here is the regulation section.

4 VAC 20-670-40. GEAR MARKING REQUIREMENTS:

A. Buoys of any crab pot, eel pot, gill net or ordinary crab trotline, used for recreational purposes, shall be marked with the licensee's last 4 numbers of his or her social security number or driver's license number, preceded by the letter "R".

B. An offshore stake of any crab trap, used for recreational purposes, shall be marked with the licensee's last 4 numbers of his or her social security number or driver's license number, preceded by the letter "R".

C. In accordance with subsections A and B of this section, licensees shall mark their gear in a legible and visible manner and in figures of not less than 1 inch in height.

The loop hole is that individuals fishing two pots are not required to have a license thus they are not the licensee.  Just to be safe you could put them on but you are not required to have them marked unless you have a 5 pot license.

The Sunday deal only applies to folks with a 5 pot license.  If you have such a license so that you can use fold up traps then you are correct you can not use the gear on a Sunday. 

In my opinion there ought to be three definitions in code (i.e. the legislature has to do this) one for a crab pot and one for a crab trap and one for a crab pound.

A crab pound is a bank trap that looks like a pound net with a rectangular trap at the deep water end. (not good words but you know what I mean)

A crab pot is a device designed such that crabs may enter but are impeeded from exiting by the design of the pot.

A crab trap is a device designed such that crabs may enter or exit at will until the trap is removed from the water, at which time the trap may close thus impeeding the crabs from exiting.

Then they should allow the Commission to create a license for no more than 25 crab traps per person or vessel and allow no more than 5 per person or vessel without a license.

That will take legislation and is not likely to make it out of committee until the crab population rebounds and stablizes.

In theory there was supposed to be a few VMRC Blue Crab Advisory Committee meetings this spring.  I asked and was told that they will not happen until VIMS completes the stock assessment.  I do not know when that will happen.

Tom

[crab_man77]

commercial watermen can only fish peeler pots on sunday. We are also not allowed to fish crab pots or have any crab on the boat other than peelers. But just because you can not fish them does not mean you can not go out and bait them. There is no law saying you can not rebait on Sunday. You just can not "fish" them on Sunday. And fishing is described as the act of taking crabs out not putting bait in. LOOPHOLE!

[CRABGUY]

OK ILL GRAB THIS AND RUN WITH IT AGAIN

FIRST OF ALL I THINK THE SUNDAY RULE SUX
NOW, I HAVE 2 POTS SO DOES MY SON THATS 4, MY DAUGHTER HAS 2 AS WELL THATS 6 FOR THOSE THAT ARE COUNTING,
I NEED NO LICENSE WHATSOEVER TO RUN THESE POTS  (YOU SAY YES YOU DO, SHOW ME     http://www.mrc.state.va.us/recfish&crabrules.htm   
MY 2 POTS PER PERSON ARE EXEMPT FROM THE LICENSE REQUIREMENT, AND I CAN PULL THEM ON SUNDAY WITH THE KIDS IN THE B.O.A.T.
SO WHY THE HECK WOULD I BUY A 5 POT LICENSE,
NEXT

SO A 5 POT LICENSE HOLDER CANT CRAB ON SUNDAY AT ALL? (HANDLINES ONLY OR DIPNETTING)
WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT HE/SHE CANT HAVE THEIR OWN 2 POTS TO RUN ON SUNDAY IN ADDITION TO THE 5 THAT YOU HAD TO BUY THE LICENSE FOR
(LOOPHOLE)
EXAMPLE: THE WATER COPS PULL UP ON SUNDAY AND YOURE PULLING YOUR 2 POTS THAT ARE EXEMPT  CAUSE YOURE ALLOWED 2 PER PERSON,
THESE ARE NOT THE 5 YOU CANT RUN ON SUNDAY??
THE ONES YOU DONT NEED A LICENSE FOR

SO YOURE RUNNING YOUR FIVE POTS 6 DAYS A WEEK
AND 2 POTS 1 DAY A WEEK
I LOVE LOOPHOLES

CRABGUY

[procrabber]

here is the problem: you guys read and think about the law.  the lawmen dont. they go by the marine police procedures.  what you need to do is call the marine police and ask them, not what the law IS, but HOW THEY are enforcing things.  same problem in MD with numbers of pots and cull rings. a pot must have a cull ring, but that ring does not need to be open in the chesapeake (but does in the coastal bays except in the peeler run)  or something like that.... who the [Sam Hill] knows what they want or what tehy were thinking (or not thinking) 

 

[CRABGUY]

THAT SOUNDS GOOD IN THEORY PROCRABBER, BUT "COPLOGIC " IS WHY WE HAVE THE COURT SYSTEM, THE LAW IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE COPS INTERPRETATION, THEY HAVE THE DESCRETION TO ENFORCE OR NOT TOO,
(WOULDNT THAT BE NICE FOR ALL OF US)
THE LAW IS THE LAW
IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DO WHAT YOU CAN TO CHANGE IT