How close can commercial pots be to a pier or lift

[Wayneo]

I have perhaps a unique problem with crab pots.  I keep a 26,000#, 40 Trawler on a lift in front of my house.  Crabbers are putting pots within 10 yards off my stern.  I have  single engine boat that needs room to leave the lift or to return to it.  I cannot do this safely with the pots where they are.  What are the laws governing blocking access to my lift?
Wayneo

[butch]

wayneo, go to this web site. it has all of the regulations you need to resolve this matter. Look at the subject of placing a SWIMMING AREA sign at the end of your pier. there are restrictions on crabbers placing pots or lines within a measured distance from that area.
thers a lot of good info in here.

http://www.dsd.state.md.md.us/comar/08/08.02.03.01htm

good luck

[Wayneo]

butch
Thanks a lot. The link did not work, but I can probably find it.  The DNR police were just at my house (2:45 pm Sunday) responding to my complaint.  They said there is nothing they can do about it, the crabber can put them where ever they want to.  I will try the swimming area  sign.

Thanks again
Wayneo

[butch]

I did read in this web site about it being a law about staying 100 feet or 1,000 feet from a swimming area. the no swimming sign was specific as to size and size and color of letters.Send me your e-mail address and I can forward the site to you. it is extremely helpful. I am positive this will cure your ailment
My e-mail address is :  txexhibitionist@charter.net

[butch]

Wayneo,
article 14 section (e) states...
from may 1st to sept.30th, inclusive, a person may not set a crab pot within 200 yards of a public bathing beach running not more than 100 yards along the shore which is plainly marked by a white sign reading bathing beach in black letters at least 4" high.

maybe you need to open a public beach......just a thought. I guess this doesn't really help much.....but here it is.

good luck

[DocSmith]

You have a 40' Trawler on a lift in front of your house? Sweet!  I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm in the wrong business!

Have you talked to the crabbers and told them about your problem?  They may be reasonable guys - maybe offer to buy a bushel or two every now and then.  If they won't co-operate, then just have a pair or two of line cutters installed on your propshaft - and then, as Tony Soprano says - fagetaboutit!  Don't intentionally run over their traps, just navigate in a prudent manner to exit and enter your slip.  No one can fault you for you exercising your right to use your boat, uh, yacht! 

We had a similar problem at the mouth of our canal system.  Crabbers placed pots in the channel - a call to the FWC resulted in the same answer you got - you have to avoid them.  However, a neighboor watched for them tending their pots, rode out and explained the problem and they don't set them there anymore.  They stop at the channel entrance and start up again after it.  Could be just a lack of communication.

Doc

[Wayneo]

DocSmith
I am a very reasonable person and I have spoken to the crabbers when I can catch them tending their pots.  It seems they either crab earlier than I get up or later or do it by remote.  Last year I was able to call to one from my pier and he said "f___you,  my pots are not in your way, you do not own the water" and proceeded to drop two pots exactly behind my boat.

As for buying a bushel or two, I would if I could be there when they are.

As to the lift, I live on the Potomac where prevailing winds are from the SW during the summer and the river has a fetch of almost 15 miles.  I either use a lift or I do not have a boat at my pier.

Thanks
Wayneo

[F.I.sherman]

if it comes down to it,not that you heard it from me just run over the bouy line with your prop.
its not illegal to do so,but it is illegal to pull up thier pots with your hands.
in my area we used to have a problem with commercial crabbermen blocking up our boat launch with tons of crab pots.It just got to the point where people would run over the buoys cutting the crab pot lines with the propellers.
commercial crabberman got the idea after they had been asked a thousand times not to block up the boat launch area.they dont do it anymore.

[Wayneo]

Solomon
I'm with you.  I would run over them in an instant if I trusted the Prop Protector to cut the line.  I am asking if anyone has experience with the line cutter in reverse.  I have back off of the lift right into the pot floats.  In returning to the lift, I really have to line the boat up for a pretty long ways to account for the wind or  I get sideways on the lift.

A few years ago, I had an Albemarle 24 with duoprop and while fishing in a pot area I pickup up a pot into my duoprop and it took my son and myself about an hour to hack through the  pot to get it off.  I then carried a bolt cutter on board.  With this boat if the line winds into the prop and shaft it could really cause a lot of problems including  dislodging the shaft and wheel.

I just cannot help think there is some way to keep the crabbers from putting their pots so close off my stern.

Incidentally, the fact my boat happens to be 40' and on a lift has nothing to do with this problem.  All of us are in the same league and we need to deal with this attitude of the crabbers.

Thanks
Wayneo

[DocSmith]

The line cutters I have seen are symetrical so just install two; one to cut in forward and turn the other one around "backwards" to cut in reverse.  They work.

Doc

[Black Irish]

Since the crabber was so ignorant to you  , why not just use a tree pruning tool. Cut the buoy line off a few feet down. After the crabber has to use a grappling hook a few dozen times to retrieve his pots, he'll get the hint. 

[crabologist]

Wayneo , Are you talking about commercial type "POTS" or recreational traps ??

[Wayneo]

I refer to the commercial pots.  These are the ones that have the rebar around the bottom to allow them to sink quickly.  My little cove  is a cresent about 1 mile long and there must be about 10 "lines" of them with distinctly colored buoys.  Each line is made up of individual pots and contain probably 30 pots.

As the crabber works his way along the line, he retrieves one and releases the previous one.  He then proceeds to the next one while emptying the one retrieved and rebaits it, an so on.  This means he could easily separate the pots enough to clear the stern of my boat.   Depending on the length of line from the pot to the buoy, the tide will move the buoy across my path.  It is difficult to be certain just where the line is, particularily if I am returning after dark.

Generally, the forward motion of a boat will push the buoy out of the way and clear the prop.  That is if the forward motion is suffient the keep the line/buoy moving along the side of the boat.  In reverse the stern will grab the buoy and stretch the line into the rudder and then probably the wheel. 

The police, when they came by to see the situation, said there was nothing that they could do, but would take the number off of the buoys and talk to the crabber and ask as a courtesy to keep the area clear behind my boat.  I am not holding my breath.

Doc:  The cutter I have is a disc forward of the prop, attached to the shaft.  It is razor sharp and should work in forward or reverse.  As the line is caught by the prop and begins to wrap around the shaft, the disc is supposed to cut the line.  I just cannot find anyone that has seen this actually work and I do not look forward to finding out the hard way when it jams the pot into my wheel and shaft.

Wayneo

[Crabslayer]

I'm a commercial and I say go for it!

http://www.spursmarine.com/

[procrabber]

warning though... if those pots go missing, it is very possible you boat will grow holes in it.  i really really really for your own safety suggest that you dont touch the pots.  maybe if you see the guy, go up to him and ask him to skip a few in front of you.  your pier gives you no authority over the entire bay. the crabber has as much of a right and if anything more of a right to fish his traps in front of your house.  remember that this is his livelihood that is going to send his kids to college, feed thousands of people, and he or others have been doing  it since before your pier went up.  if a commercial crabber didnt set pots in front of anyones pier, look how little space would be left.  i dont blame the watermen for trying to make a living, i blame homebuilders for destroying the bay by bulkheading every last foot of waterfront.

[procrabber]

I'm a commercial and I say go for it!

http://www.spursmarine.com/

i am going to work with the DNR to make these illegal.  ghost pots kill almost as many crabs as the entire recreational fishery.  think of how many of those sooks you guys so carefully release get caught in ghost pots from recreational boaters running them over.  most crabbers loose about 1/4th of their pots a year to careless boaters. 

[Crabslayer]

Wayneo did approach the guy to ask him politely and he told him to go F himself.  The guy has every right to use the water in front of his property (otherwise the Army Corps. of Engineers as well as the county would not have issued a building permit) as much as the crabber using it to make a living.  Also what about the waterman who owns waterfront property himself?  We don't own the water but we do share it.  Common courtesy should reign.

I agree about the ghost pots but I don't think Wayneo would intentionally start running down pots for the heck of it.

And if Wayneo finds holes in his boat, then that doesn't say much for the commercial who put them there.  They're the kind that give the rest of us a bad name!

[Wayneo]

Procrabber:
Wait just a minute.  I never said I was going to cut these lines off and/or move the pots.  That is why I asked the DNRP to help me get off of my lift.  I do not have anything to do with bulkheading and I only ask that in my case, do not put the pot immediately behind my boat.  I need maneuvering room to get on and off my lift.  This is much more critical than trying to get into or out of a slip. 

You are getting carried away.  I do not begrudge the crabber making a living, etc.  Simply let me utilize what I have been working for for 35 years to acquire, my boat.  Where did I say my pier gave me authority over the entire Bay?!!

Judging by your name, you must be a commercial crabber.  Good for you, it is a tough living.  I do not want to interfere with that.  I have to protect my investment.  I know of a boat like mine that picked up a line, unintentionally, and it just about sunk the boat when the pot wound around the shaft, bent the strut and pulled it out of the hull.

My comment about the line cutter on the shaft was self preservation, should I pick up a line.  I certainly have no intention of running through a crab pot field to cut lines off.  As a matter of fact, my problem with the line cutter is simply, I do not trust it to protect my underwater gear.

Once again, all I ask is to allow about ten yards either side of my lift to allow me to get on and off.  That is not asking too much.  I just do not understand the attitude of the crabbers to that simple request.  In the one mile of beach where I am, I am the only inboard and there are only 4 other boats on lifts, all outboards and much easier to move around the pots.

Cheers
Wayneo

[Tom Powers]

It may take a little longer, and it is a pain that you would have to do this in order to use your boat, but you may want to consider approaching your local legislator (or DNR if they make these rules) and ask about getting a regulation or law where individuals other than the property owners are not allowed to set crab pots within a reasonable distance from a pier public or private pier.  Maybe something like 25 yards.  The problem isn't that the guy is being a jerk.  The problem is that because of jerks like him there SHOULD be a law or regulation.

If it was Virginia where you could set out your own pots I would suggest that you fill the area near your pier with dummy crab pots, early in the season.  Just set out crab pot bouys tied to cinder blocks.  Nothing illegal about fishing for crabs using cinderblocks in MD is there?

Tom

[procrabber]

no doubt about it the guy you asked to not put the pots there is a total D---! in the right or not, i would move my pots if asked.  and not many of the watermen i know would respond like that.... but the ones that would would likely seek some sort of revenge.  i understand your frustration, but your legal/moral options are limited.  i know a lot of the workboats have cages over the prop.  this is the better option, and i wonder if it would work for you. they are much better at preventing fouling, and also protect against low speed trees and etc.  just when i heard all the talk about line cutters, i had to respond to give the alternate viewpoint, to prevent ghost pots and legitimate and polite people like myself from losing pots at 30$ a pop. 
Wayneo, much to the contary of me critisizing you.  you came here rater than take matters in your own hands.  this board at times has a "round em up and shoot em" attitude about commercials sometimes, especailly when the commercial watermen are illustrated by the [arse] that told you off.  i just wanted to tell the other side of the story.  i know everyone here is good people, but at times get a little carried away.  if we were to have no pots anywhere where they could foul a boat, there would be no pots in the bay at all,

one time i ran down someones pot by accident. he set his gear all over top of mine, so it wasnt my fault to begin with. he got pissed and cut 3 of my pots loose.  he knew it was an accident too.  some people are just asses. 

so in a way we are in the same position. dealing with asses on the water. 

crabslayer,  now that you are a comm, you get to deal with all of this costing you money, as well as costing you frustration! good luck with the rec trotliners setting on top of you (and get used to it!)   

[Wayneo]

Procrabber
I have to respond to your last post.  Thank you for your candor.  Your earlier post sounded like I was digging myself a grave.  I do not want to do that.  I have lived here in Southern Maryland for 4 years full time, but have been on the bay and this area for 15 years.  I would be a fool to cut the pots off in front of my boat.  I do know better then that.

I do not think a cage is viable.  These boats only go 9 to 10 knots as it is but they will do that forever.  I think the cage, if I could find or have one made would cut that down.  At any rate, if I can get off my lift I do not need it.

One of my earlier posts, I mentioned an incident where I tangled a pot in my duoprop.  The crabber  had about 15 or 20 feet of line in about 4 feet of water.   I was fishing and well away from the float and I hit the pot itself.  Needless to say I was surprise to find the pot in my prop.  Fortunately I had an IO and we could get to the pot to cut it free after about an hour.


I would simply like to get along.

Thanks again
Wayneo

[Black Irish]

"this board at times has a "round em up and shoot em" attitude about commercials sometimes"

Ok, that was a fair shot at me, PC. The comm. guy was rude to Wayneo for asking politely to move his pots and it set me off, I'm sorry.

I have a suggestion, Wayneo that might be a viable compromise for both of you. Up here the commercials string 4-5 pots together with a float at one or both ends so they can lay their pots across designated 'float free' channels. Maybe this crabber would be willing to do something similar for you. It takes more effort to pull in pots in string like that so maybe 'sweeten' the deal for him a little. Good luck.

[procrabber]

BI-
for this comm guy.. have at em"    

what gentleman would respond with such vulgarities based on a simple request.

i just got scared when people started talking about line cutters!   

[Black Irish]

No problem, PC.  Nobody's talking about running over pot floats with line cutters on purpose. We all have to get along. Wayneo needs some sort of solution. This comm. should be a little nicer than he was. You never know when you might need help out on the water...

[Dave Jr.]

Use Dummy Pots.   Attach a trolling weight to a crab pot string and float and drop where he is laying.  When you splash the boat you can move them easily out of your way.  He doesn't know what's on the other end of that float.  Get in his way using a little trickery.