Blue Crab Industry Design Team Meeting 8 summary

[Mr. Breeze]

 Blue Crab Industry Design Team
Meeting #8: 10/5/2011
In Attendance:
Support Team: George Chmael, Pete Jensen, Bruce Turris, Mick Blackistone, Melissa Boe, Kate Culzoni, Bruce Turris, Kelly Barnes, Henry Coppola
Principals: Larry Simns, Gibby Dean, Billy Rice, Marcus Blake, Wayne Wilson, Irving Chappelear, Brian Flaugher, Moochie Gilmer, Jack Brooks, Karen Oertel, Chris Lingerman, Mark Kitching, Russell Dize, Richard Young, Danny Beck, Bobby Whaples, Greg Price
Alternates: Steve Lay, Vince Meyer, Willie Dean, David Kirwan, Ben Parks, Bubbie Powley, Grant Corbin, Craig Evans
DNR: Steve Early, Brenda Davis, Lynn Fegley, Jorge Holzer, Heather Brown
Absent:
Principles: Robert T. Brown, Bob Evans
Alternates: Rocky Rice, George Luongo, Bobby Abner, Bunky Chance, Billy Scerbo
Public Attendees:
Jody Tull, Mike Anderson, Tom Nash, Bruce Festermann, George Spiridonov, Gail Sindorf, Stephan Abel, Rich Murray
Meeting Welcome
Facilitator George Chmael welcomed members and acknowledged that traffic had been bad in all directions and a few members were running late.
George went through the agenda and asked that housekeeping matters be moved to the end of the meeting in order to avoid getting sidetracked at the outset.
Election Results & New Design Team Member Introductions
Kate Culzoni reported the election results based on the 250 received nominations, of which 227 were usable.
Newly Elected Design Team Members (full results can be found on page 32-33 of the Working Document):
At-Large Seats (2):
• Richard Young
• Danny Beck

Dorchester Seats:
• Principal: Bobby Whaples
• Alternate: Ben Parks

Somerset Seats:
• Principal: Greg Price
• Alternate: Grant Corbin

Tangier Sound Seat:
• Alternate: Craig Evans

All new Design Team members briefly introduced themselves and Steve Early commended the election process on behalf of the Department of Natural Resources. He highlighted the thorough and transparent nature of the process and praised the Design Team for responding to and resolving the issues of representation that had been raised by CBCFA and mentioned the potential for using the established election process as a model for eventual Design Team member turnover and replacement as well as for selecting members for DNR’s fisheries committees. DNR is pleased with the process and results and hopes that the Design Team can now rededicate itself to discussions around improving the long term viability and future of the Blue Crab industry.

[Mr. Breeze]

The Design Team discussed the process and results and generally agreed that the election had gone well and, while participation might appear low, it was important to keep in mind that every license holder was given the opportunity to participate and vote.
CBCFA Response Letter
George gave a synopsis of the Design Team’s letter asking CBCFA to return to the Team and fill its association seat and then recapped the content of the response letter from CBCFA. He then highlighted that two former CBCFA members were elected (Bobby Whaples and Grant Corbin) in the voting process, three either did not want to continue or were happy with their replacements (Robbie Tyler and Buddy Evans), leaving only the issue of Bubbie Powley’s status to be resolved.
CBCFA’s Gibby Dean confirmed the summary of the situation and thanked the Team for inviting the Association to return and then asked them to find a way to let Bubbie remain involved as a representative for Dorchester County.
Several possible options for keeping Bubby involved were proposed:
• Alternate for the CBCFA seat
• Alternate for the Crab Processor seat
• Second Alternate for Dorchester County

Action: The Design Team unanimously voted to accept Bubbie Powley as a second alternative for Dorchester County with the understanding that the addition of a second alternate did not change the number of votes that Dorchester County has (each County has one vote regardless of the number of alternates from that County).
Gibby Dean thanked the Design Team for their cooperation and efforts to work with CBCFA to improve the process. The Design Team invited the returning CBCFA members to retake their seats at the table.
DNR Regulatory Process
Steve Early gave an overview of the legislative and regulatory processes applicable to the enactment of Blue Crab regulations and laws. DNR wants to make sure that the Design Team has a solid understanding of the processes that their recommendations will go through as they move forward from the Team and is eager to help the Team create a reasonable and helpful timeline for making their recommendations.
He indicated that the regulatory process takes roughly 4-6 months to complete. Regulatory ideas must be created, undergo a scoping process, and then work through the requirements of Administrative Procedures Act process. In order to have a recommendation go through the regulatory process prior to the start of the 2012 Blue Crab Season the Team would need to make the recommendation by early November, at the latest.
Early also outlined the legislative process and described the legislative calendar. He stressed that it was preferable to have Design Team recommendations that required legislative action go through DNR and the Governor’s Office in order to maintain as much control as possible over the legislation and keep the recommendation as close to the wishes of the Team as possible. It is too late in the year for recommendations to go through this process for the 2012 legislative session. Legislative recommendations could still be pushed into the upcoming legislative session with an outside sponsor, but Early cautioned that this would mean that the Team would give up some control over the recommendation.
Section 9 (pages 34-37) in the Working Document covers the information in Early’s presentation in more detail.

[Mr. Breeze]

DNR sees regulatory recommendations as preferable to legislative recommendations since the regulatory process allows for greater Department and Design Team control over the recommendations. Further, any new laws will have to be accompanied by the enactment of regulations after passage, thereby further extending the period between recommendation and actual implementation. Early further stressed the importance of taking the time to make thorough and well thought out recommendations and suggested that the Team not rush to try and make recommendations for the 2012 crabbing season, especially considering that the Team is tasked with pursuing long term issues and trends within the industry and that there are other committees that are responsible for making short term in-season recommendations.
The Design Team asked whether pilot projects would require regulatory or legislative changes and if DNR could undertake pilot projects, if recommended, during the 2012 season. Early stated that pilot projects that don’t exempt watermen from regulations (e.g. testing accountability tools but sticking to standard regulations) can be done without any regulations changes. If a pilot project exempts a participant from specific regulations (e.g. if participants signed up they could be given more flexibility in regulations like flexible work hours/day or bushel limits), Early explained that it was a more complicated issue to unravel and that DNR was still working on figuring out the details and that while he could not provide a definitive answer that night but would work to give the Team more information as soon as he could. He was hopeful that at least some types of pilot projects would be possible at some point during the 2012 season.
Timeline and Planning
Building off of the DNR presentation on regulatory and legislative processes, the Design Team discussed the need to balance the desire to make recommendations quickly and the need to make sure that the recommendations are well-conceived and thorough.
The Design Team expressed its desire to proceed carefully and to be sure to make recommendations that they were happy with and that would provide a solid foundation for the future of the industry.
George introduced the idea of working on recommendations through the use of subcommittees or more frequent meetings. 2 ½ hours each month is not a lot of time to get things done so the Support Team is prepared to support the team through a few different options:
1. More meetings/month
2. An extended meeting over a day or two day period
3. Subcommittees – a smaller group of Design Team members that help flush out ideas and details and present them back to Design Team.

Several members of the Design Team voiced a preference for working on issues and beginning to formulate proposals as a whole as opposed to splitting into smaller groups. They then all agreed to begin to specifically address the issues related to Accountability at the November meeting.
The Team also discussed working on recommendations and then working with DNR to develop a timeframe. Members noted that it was difficult to define the timeline for how to proceed without knowing what they were going to recommend.
Summary of Work to Date
Kate Culzoni gave a summary of the work done to date by the Team which focused on the “short list” of tools that the Team had developed in prior meetings. A copy of the summary of work to date is available in the Meeting 8 documents section of the Watermen Way website.

Accountability

[Mr. Breeze]

Accountability
The Design Team revisited the importance of Accountability, and therein latent effort, as a primary issue to address and discussed their interest in being able to pursue pilot projects in the course of making their recommendations.
Larry Simns circulated a new Accountability Proposal for the Team’s consideration. The Team did not have time to discuss the proposal but will do so when they discuss Accountability at the next meeting.
Media Update
The Design Team discussed their displeasure with the negative portrayal of watermen in several recent news stories and the Support Team encouraged the Team to work proactively to create positive stories around their work. The Support Team reminded the members that they have considerable resources available to help the Team with media outreach.
Mick Blackistone counseled the Team to be careful when speaking with reporters since it is easy for a story to be sensationalized or taken out of context. He encouraged any Team member who isn’t comfortable speaking with the media to send the media to the members with more experience or to the Support Team who could then help set up appropriate contacts for the media.
H2B Visa Update
Karen Oertel and Jack Brooks gave an update on the current H-2B Visa situation. Since the last meeting ,Senator Milkulski’s office has succeeded in securing a 60 day delay in the implementation of H2-B rules changes and is continuing to seek a longer term solution. At the very least, this delay should keep the crab houses working through this fall season.
Work is ongoing on the issue and they thanked the Team members for their support in getting other politicians interested and involved and promised to continue to keep the Team up to date.
Other Housekeeping Notices
• Travel reimbursements have been made for Team members.
• The Support Team offered to notify blue crab permit holders on new members and contact information. Some members felt that it was not necessary to send an update on Team membership to all MD license holders since the members can take that information to their constituents more easily.
• The introductory letter to the members of the MD General Assembly can now be sent to relevant local politicians and stakeholders. The Support Team was instructed to do so.
• Russell Dize reported that the ASMFC is voting on an striped bass quota allocation reduction at their next meeting.
• The Support Team reported that it is developing a calendar and other improvements to the website, per the instructions of the Team members.

Wrap Up
George thanked the Team Members for another productive meeting and reminded them that the next meeting is on the first Tuesday (Nov.1) instead of the first Wednesday of November. Larry Simns gave an update on Team member Robert T. Brown who is recovering in the hospital after heart complications and asked that everyone keep him in their thoughts. Also, a get well card was available for everyone to sign for Buddy Evans who is still recovering from his accident.
The next meeting is Tuesday November 1.
Public Comment
No public comments were given.

[bsr1]

Larry Simns circulated a new Accountability Proposal for the Team’s consideration. The Team did not have time to discuss the proposal but will do so when they discuss Accountability at the next meeting.

Can you give us any details on Larry's plan Rich or is secret?

[Mr. Breeze]

Can you give us any details on Larry's plan Rich or is secret?

LOL, no it's not secret.  I'll scan it in this evening after work, and post it here

[C-Hawk18]

LOL, no it's not secret.  I'll scan it in this evening after work, and post it here

I think it's already scanned and posted on watermanway...

http://watermenway.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Accountability-Proposal.pdf

[genecrabman]

  I THINK THIS PART IS............

"The impact of the harvest the
previous year will show up in the winter dredge survey results"



TOTAL BULLHOCKEY.



How can they get any kind of accurate count this way? With the type of Hurricane we had this past year,and in future years...Is this the "BEST" they can do?? Crabs could be pushed several miles from where they would normally bed down in the winter...Sounds like Maryland DNR needs to make some Big Changes with other things before they put watermen out of work...

[madcrabber1113]

My head just exploded!

[Crabslayer]

I think it's already scanned and posted on watermanway...

http://watermenway.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Accountability-Proposal.pdf

There is no way in he!! that Larry wrote that.  Smells like EDF or DNR to me.

[Mr. Breeze]

There is no way in he!! that Larry wrote that.  Smells like EDF or DNR to me.

LOL, of course he didn't actually  write it.  The ideas came from MWA.  It was written and produced by the support team.  The final copy was approved and handed out by Larry.

[Big Liar]

Rich,

    Is anybody looking at the avg. catch from year to year.  I know my yearly numbers have gone up the last 4 years.  I've caught twice as many bushel this year as I did just two years ago.  My effort did not go up, yet I'm catching that many more.  Seems to me that the current restrictions are working very well.  I guess they want the crabs to be like deer.  Boats won't be able to run down the river without hitting and killing crabs. 

[reds]

The EDF seems to be pushing for a Hail Program for Maryland Crabbers.
Any comments from Maryland  Commercial Crabbers?

Here is the EDF's definition of Hail Program. This would be implemented on a daily basis.

Hail in / Hail out (syn. Hail program) – An approach used for monitoring that allows a vessel operator to communicate their fishing activity to a central clearinghouse. Reporting often includes commencement and completion of a fishing trip, location of fishing activity, and the intended point of departure and offloading of harvest.

What Do You Think???

[rdbeard]

Well, it seems simple enough if DNR don't handle it and there's no cost. Launched to crab at 3 am, pulled lines at 2pm crabbed area 066, catch, 3 bu # 1s.  3bu #2s, 2 bu sooks.pulled boat at stoney creek, offload at my adress. drink beer wait for customers, go to bed, repeat.

[Captain C]

The EDF seems to be pushing for a Hail Program for Maryland Crabbers.
Any comments from Maryland  Commercial Crabbers?

Here is the EDF's definition of Hail Program. This would be implemented on a daily basis.

Hail in / Hail out (syn. Hail program) – An approach used for monitoring that allows a vessel operator to communicate their fishing activity to a central clearinghouse. Reporting often includes commencement and completion of a fishing trip, location of fishing activity, and the intended point of departure and offloading of harvest.

What Do You Think???

Would this be conducted over the VHF?

If so, I'm not infavor of this, the public doesn't need to know how much I'm catching or where.

[C-Hawk18]

Well, it seems simple enough if DNR don't handle it and there's no cost. Launched to crab at 3 am, pulled lines at 2pm crabbed area 066, catch, 3 bu # 1s.  3bu #2s, 2 bu sooks.pulled boat at stoney creek, offload at my adress. drink beer wait for customers, go to bed, repeat.

Not quite - it would be more like:

Call at 3am - Launching at XX, fishing for XX with XX gear
Call at 2pm - Pulling out at XX with XX

But who is going to be there to answer the "Hail" 24/7. They can't even get a P/T employee to set up people in the on-line reporting system.

[Mr. Breeze]

Would this be conducted over the VHF?

If so, I'm not infavor of this, the public doesn't need to know how much I'm catching or where.

No, it would have to be done electronicly, either by text or online, or both.  There would have to be a way to do it on regular phone also, as there are still some areas with no cell coverage.  It's important to get the human recording aspect out of play, because dnr has time after time demonstrated limited ability to record data accurately

[Mr. Breeze]

Not quite - it would be more like:

Call at 3am - Launching at XX, fishing for XX with XX gear
Call at 2pm - Pulling out at XX with XX

But who is going to be there to answer the "Hail" 24/7. They can't even get a P/T employee to set up people in the on-line reporting system.

according to Brenda Davis at the meeting last night, they are signing people up.  One hand doesn't know what the other is doing.

The hail program would be operated thru a computer program which would collect necessary data, and would be available 24/7

As D pointed out, distrust and mistrust of DNR is rampant in the waterman community, and rightly so.  Their continued effort to maintain penalties for lack of use of licenses is just one example.  There is a real need for the department to show good faith negotiation tactics and a willingnes to take some action, not just spread around some vague offers of an improved fishery.

[Crabslayer]

The EDF seems to be pushing for a Hail Program for Maryland Crabbers.
Any comments from Maryland  Commercial Crabbers?

Here is the EDF's definition of Hail Program. This would be implemented on a daily basis.

Hail in / Hail out (syn. Hail program) – An approach used for monitoring that allows a vessel operator to communicate their fishing activity to a central clearinghouse. Reporting often includes commencement and completion of a fishing trip, location of fishing activity, and the intended point of departure and offloading of harvest.

What Do You Think???

I thought this was supposed to be industry led?  EDF seems to be more than acting as a facilitator.

[Captain C]

Would this program replace the monthly reporting?

Would we need to "check in" before work, or at quittin time only?

Will DNR limit days/hours we can work, after so many pounds/bushels have been caught?

[C-Hawk18]

Will DNR limit days/hours we can work, after so many pounds/bushels have been caught?

Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner!

[genecrabman]

Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner!

Guess thats what they mean by Catch Shares......Limiting the Days......This year you can work 100 days, next year maybe 50, if EDF and DNR will let you...

You guys have 2 foxes in the hen house and don't even know it yet...

[Crabbyd]

Guess thats what they mean by Catch Shares......Limiting the Days......This year you can work 100 days, next year maybe 50, if EDF and DNR will let you...

You guys have 2 foxes in the hen house and don't even know it yet...

I think more than one of us knows it..... 

[Mr. Ray III]

Whats gonna happen is we are gonna get thrown a buncha ridiculous ideas that will not help in any way, but only complicate the MESS we have now, and then they will tell the "design team" to pick the best.  Each idea's underlying theme is catch shares, in some shape or form.  

What needs to happen is EDF needs to GTFO, and DNR needs to take the money they are giving to EDF and hire some people who actually have expirence in filing paper work and keeping records so that reporting can be taken seriously.  Every time I fill out a report I think to myself, is anyone going to even read this or will it get thrown in the late report pile?  DNR needs to get straight before anymore restrictions or programs are put in place and if the sook regs aren't working, remove them and start with something new.



And HAIL NO to a hail program. 

[genecrabman]

Check this out Ray......Kind of gives you an idea of what EDF does...

http://www.edf.org/oceans/numbers-oceans-crisis



don't miss this Part...........

There's hope: More fish and more revenue
 
All the old-style management methods, such as limited seasons and restrictions on what gear to use, haven't worked. (See all the numbers above.) But one approach has — catch shares.
 
Under catch shares, fishermen get an economic incentive to help the fishery recover. They get a share of the allowed catch, which grows as the fishery recovers.