2012 Talbot Ramp Permits

[rapp414]

Rdbeard I don't go to the Nj beaches ,I have a home in De ,and I don't really go to the beaches there either,spend most of my time in the bay playing on my 3 boats,either crabbing,YES CRABBING,clamming,fishing ,swimming,or just relaxing.But I will say MANY MANY people do go to the Jersey Shore so there must be something to it.It's nice to see all of this Maryland loyalty ,but this is an awesome country,I've been to FLa,loved it ,Lived on the West Coast for 5 yrs,plenty to see and do there,been to NE states,they're great too.Might wanna try leaving MD and seeing other places,I'll bet they'll be more than happy to let you in,and probably be real nice to you too.

[ChrisS]

What is the relevance of the question?

Whether or not his or any crab charter operation is in fact legal ran in that fashion, pretty relevant...huh?

[Crabbyd]

Whether or not his or any crab charter operation is in fact legal ran in that fashion, pretty relevant...huh?

Brings Workman's comp into play.  I would imagine Chuck does not have workman's comp insurance since they are all family and not required to have it which then gets into the legality of charters.

[Summertop]

I would love to fill my freezer with rockfish.  Hey Reds you want to take me out on a hook and line charter so I can get around my rec limits?

[crablegs]

Good. Now raise the rec license to $30 for residents of MD and a minimum of $50 for nonresidents.

Tell me where else in the world can you buy a license for $5 that entitles one to a catch with a daily value of $100-$150? It would still be a good deal at $50.

The point of my original post was not to completely exclude OOS'rs just that the license for them should be more in line with similar OOS license fees- deer, waterfowl, turkey etc. $50 would be reasable.  Rec crabbing has become significantly more popular since the $5 license was introduced. Seems like all other fees/taxes for MD residents have increased. Time for OOS'rs to pay their share as well.

[reds]

I would love to fill my freezer with rockfish.  Hey Reds you want to take me out on a hook and line charter so I can get around my rec limits?

John

The regs specifically say a charter captain can't fish for a Striped Bass commercial allocation with a charter. The same is not true with crab charters.

[Summertop]

John

The regs specifically say a charter captain can't fish for a Striped Bass commercial allocation with a charter. The same is not true with crab charters.

I guess crabbingcharters.com  ie.  Charlie1 on here should have fought the state and the DNR harder when he got busted via sting for over harvesting.  I know of one other that it happend to also.  The 2 other charter operations on my side of the bay have commercial licenses and do charters but their clients are regulated to rec regulations.  I also looked into this myself about a year ago with the DNR  and found that unless you have insurance for these people and they are paid crew than it can create problems as I thought about making a quick buck doing this.

[reds]

I guess crabbingcharters.com  ie.  Charlie1 on here should have fought the state and the DNR harder when he got busted via sting for over harvesting.  I know of one other that it happend to also.  The 2 other charter operations on my side of the bay have commercial licenses and do charters but their clients are regulated to rec regulations.  I also looked into this myself about a year ago with the DNR  and found that unless you have insurance for these people and they are paid crew than it can create problems as I thought about making a quick buck doing this.

All I ask is that someone produce the regulation that specifically says that a charter is limited to a rec catch when it comes to crabs.

All the rest I have no idea what you are taking about or maybe I do. It just dawned on me.

Those charter operations you are talking about may have had just guide licenses. A guide license is not a capable of catching more then a rec allotment. It's the unlimited TFL that makes the difference.

[reds]

I guess crabbingcharters.com  ie.  Charlie1 on here should have fought the state and the DNR harder when he got busted via sting for over harvesting.  I know of one other that it happend to also.  The 2 other charter operations on my side of the bay have commercial licenses and do charters but their clients are regulated to rec regulations.  I also looked into this myself about a year ago with the DNR  and found that unless you have insurance for these people and they are paid crew than it can create problems as I thought about making a quick buck doing this.

BTW...An LCC would have worked also. Bet your charter guys had neither.

[ChrisS]

Reds,
What limits should the harvest of a "crab charter" fall under?

[Mikie]

Whether or not his or any crab charter operation is in fact legal ran in that fashion, pretty relevant...huh?

If he is a USCG licensed Capt he can take people for hire on his boat. If he has an unlimited TFL he can use any gear he wants and keep as many crabs as he is allowed. He is then allowed to sell them to whomever he wants - for whatever amount of money he wants (or can get). If he chooses to give the people who were on his boat the crabs, that is his prerogative. Now, why would you consider these people employees and start talking about Workmen's Comp? It's the same situation as a rec with a license running 1200' of trotline and having other unlicensed recs on the boat  - they can all take part in the crabbing operation as long as the bushel limit is not exceeded.

Another example - I take lifelong friends crabbing on my boat a couple of times a year. I give them all of the crabs at the end of the day. Any difference?

[ChrisS]

I disagree mike.....if your onboard a hook and line vessel, and your hook and lining....your an employee. If your onboard a charter vessel as a party, your only allowed the recreactional limit.

Explain to me, what makes this operation so different and why the rules should not apply?

[ChrisS]

Another example - I take lifelong friends crabbing on my boat a couple of times a year. I give them all of the crabs at the end of the day. Any difference?

That depends, are your crabbing recreationally or are you crabbing commercially?

[ChrisS]

Recreational limits, to me, are the threshold of what I imply as the "standard" limits. Once you go beyond that, your now commercial.

Let me ask you this......if you hold a UTFL with striped bass allocation, but your also a licensed captain and you take a party out trolling....once you catch your charter limit......are you than allowed to keep trolling and tag any other fish caught as Hook and line striped bass?

[shedking]

Rather than argue it out on here, if you feel so adamantly that he is Flagranrly violating the laws, report him to the proper authorities. Rather than foul a man's name and business on a public forum over conjecture, do the right thing and report him as the violators that you are accusing him of being. If he in fact is doing something illegal you can pat yourself on the back for putting an end to the abominable acts. 

[Mikie]

That depends, are your crabbing recreationally or are you crabbing commercially?

If I keep more then the recreational limit, I'm commercial. What I do with the crabs is my business. We'll have to agree to disagree. Like Reds said earlier, show me the law or the reg and we'll have something to discuss. There are specific regs covering the Hook & Line/Charter fishing situation which do not apply to the crabbing sector.  Merry Christmas to all!!

[reds]

Recreational limits, to me, are the threshold of what I imply as the "standard" limits. Once you go beyond that, your now commercial.

Let me ask you this......if you hold a UTFL with striped bass allocation, but your also a licensed captain and you take a party out trolling....once you catch your charter limit......are you than allowed   to keep trolling and tag any other fish caught as Hook and line striped bass?

Chris

I have answered that once. There are specific regs against what you are asking, about Striped Bass and multitude of other fish that have a rec limit. Crabs do not have a regulation limiting the catch to rec limits on a charter boat that the captain has commercial crab endorsement.

[jack1747]

Rather than argue it out on here, if you feel so adamantly that he is Flagranrly violating the laws, report him to the proper authorities. Rather than foul a man's name and business on a public forum over conjecture, do the right thing and report him as the violators that you are accusing him of being. If he in fact is doing something illegal you can pat yourself on the back for putting an end to the abominable acts. 

I think this more of a topic about charters in general. 

[jack1747]

All I ask is that someone produce the regulation that specifically says that a charter is limited to a rec catch when it comes to crabs.

All the rest I have no idea what you are taking about or maybe I do. It just dawned on me.

Those charter operations you are talking about may have had just guide licenses. A guide license is not a capable of catching more then a rec allotment. It's the unlimited TFL that makes the difference.

I'm kinda interested in this topic...

[ChrisS]

Rather than argue it out on here, if you feel so adamantly that he is Flagranrly violating the laws, report him to the proper authorities. Rather than foul a man's name and business on a public forum over conjecture, do the right thing and report him as the violators that you are accusing him of being. If he in fact is doing something illegal you can pat yourself on the back for putting an end to the abominable acts. 

Shed,
I dont think this fellow is breaking the law maliciously, if infact he's even breaking the law at all.
There's a difference.

[ChrisS]

Reds,
You really didnt answer anything.....can you charter while your hook and lining?

If they are recreational crabbers on board, the limit is such. If they crabbing commercially, they're crew members. Period.

[Mikie]

I disagree mike.....if your onboard a hook and line vessel, and your hook and lining....your an employee. If your onboard a charter vessel as a party, your only allowed the recreactional limit.

Explain to me, what makes this operation so different and why the rules should not apply?

Actually, I would have to disagree with this statement also.  A H&L licensee is allowed to have three other people on the boat while he is fishing. If they are not being compensated, they certainly are NOT employees.

Well, you certainly are entitled to your "opinions", as are we all. You just need to provide some definite references to regs or laws that reinforce your "opinions", or that's all they are.

[shedking]

A little drip in a huge bucket! And Chuck may make money on his illegal charters and boat rentals

Jack I think the man,was named by name and stated the he makes money off his illegal charters.  Slander and libel are serious. If the man is being falsely accused of wrongdoing on the BCA that opens a whole new issue. I would hesitate to make such allegations with out solid proof
 http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0829656.html

[Seanile]

LOL Chris,I'll stick with my Eagles,I'm a glutton for punishment

I knew I liked you, just didn't know why until now. Go birds.

Cherry Hill huh?, right near my old backyard in NE Philly.

[shedking]

Shed,
I dont think this fellow is breaking the law maliciously, if infact he's even breaking the law at all.
There's a difference.

In order for a law to be broken maliciously or otherwise there first has to be a law. So far no one has been able to produce anything other than conjecture about any law being broken. Find the law that's being broken. No law equals nothing to break. ,