commerical guys read

[tedbo]

 Not to mention it is a heck of alot of work...

And pulling pots isn't?

[fishingtom]

And pulling pots isn't?

I never said potting isn't.  In fact I didn't attack any type of crabbing.  You made it sound like running a commercial trotline is a walk in the park.  I KNOW IT"S NOT!

[Mr. Ray III]

The problem is recs.  Not blaming anyone, or attacking anyone but there is just so many we have Jo idea what they are taking and not to start a war but imo they are allowed too many crabs.

[crewstation]

And then limit the recs. to a jersey trot line.   

Tried that once.  Hooked the line, set it on the propstick, reached for the net to start dipping, blinked, and we were at the other buoy.

[ChrisS]

The problem is recs.  Not blaming anyone, or attacking anyone but there is just so many we have Jo idea what they are taking and not to start a war but imo they are allowed too many crabs.

You are 100% correct.......recreational crabbing license fees needs to be raised for both resident and non-resident, in addtion to a reduction in limits.

[fishingtom]

The problem is recs.  Not blaming anyone, or attacking anyone but there is just so many we have Jo idea what they are taking and not to start a war but imo they are allowed too many crabs.

Just so I know, what exactly is the problem the recs have caused?  Is it a lack of crabs?  Are there fewer big crabs or the lack of females?  What is it your saying?  Is there a limit imposed by Dnr on the amount of crabs a commercial is allowed to take?  I am really asking not implying anything.

[tedbo]

Tried that once.  Hooked the line, set it on the propstick, reached for the net to start dipping, blinked, and we were at the other buoy.

:laugh:Then it worked the way it was intended!

[crewstation]

Been crabbing for 40 years and have never seen a trotline in NJ other than the one I set.  So yeah, I guess it worked.

[jack1747]

Just so I know, what exactly is the problem the recs have caused?  Is it a lack of crabs?  Are there fewer big crabs or the lack of females?  What is it your saying?  Is there a limit imposed by Dnr on the amount of crabs a commercial is allowed to take?  I am really asking not implying anything.

What shocked me was a couple years ago when the DNR said they had issued 90-95,000 rec license that season.  Not to mention how many unlicensed rec's there are. Nobody knows. And nobody know how much crab we rec's take...   

[crewstation]

For what it's worth, I voluntarily report, but that is a scary number.  95,000.

[tedbo]

And 95,000 issued equals a LOT of money!  It's easy to say "raise the fees" but there is a tipping point. That's the point where that occasional rec says, "it's not worth it, for as often as I go".

In reality I doubt if more that 25% go with any regularity. Can you imange what it would look like out there if 80% went every weekend? (4th of July weekend I guess)

And nobody know how much crab we rec's take...   

You hit the nail on the head.

[ChrisS]

If they doubled the fees, and half the people quit, you'd still pull in the same amount of revenue.....and less crabs would be harvested.....but, regardless of how much they raise it, you will still buy them.

[Grizzly36]

What shocked me was a couple years ago when the DNR said they had issued 90-95,000 rec license that season.  Not to mention how many unlicensed rec's there are. Nobody knows. And nobody know how much crab we rec's take...   

I do i do... None In VA right

[Grizzly36]

I wouldn't have a problem reporting my catch. Bu8t then again I'm not as passionate about the laws and the politcis that go into setting regs as most of you are.  And i think that number of licensees is very misleading.  High and low. 

Yeah all those people bought a license but think about how many actually got used enough to the point that it would be detrimental.  I bought two last year as a non resident( me and wife). We came to MD like 4 times and the best day we had was probably 3doz. Even when i stayed in Delaware i bet we only went a dozen or so times and again the best we ever did was about 3doz( i guess im not that good) but thats all we ever needed.

Now how about all those people that go without a license(legally) and catch their 2doz and never buy a license.  When does that get accounted for.

[JonB]

Trying not to turn this into a comm vs rec comment but the issue of conservation is everyones.  To say the problem is the rec crabbers is pretty selfish.  I am rec crabber that probably only takes 4 bushels total on a good year.  I only take what my family can eat and I only take the best of the catch.  While commerical crabbers take as much as they catch and all that they catch...for obvious reasons.  Its their living, but the resource is not theirs alone.  The claim that there are 95K rec crabbers...I cannot argue...but you cannot say that those 95K crabbers crab everyday with 300-600 pots or 2400' of line.  Not even going to attempt to comment on the crabbers that do so illegally.  As with everything this all comes down to money for our gov't and DNR doesn't have enough to enforce the way it needs to be.

[tedbo]

Well said JonB, I think the majority of the rec's yields are like yours. But you'll never convince comm. guys who fear, (rightly so) for an uncertain future. Many believe recs are the downfall of their way of life, not just because of the resource they take, but because they are crab-eaters who don't buy their products, a double wammie.

[Summertop]

Well said JonB, I think the majority of the rec's yields are like yours. But you'll never convince comm. guys who fear, (rightly so) for an uncertain future.

You speculate!!...  You don't know.. No one does, that would be the point.  Un-reported catches of a possible 95,000 crabbers is always the wild card.  However when you base it on the number of licensed rec crabbers and their maximum daily catch limits, the results do have the capability to be disastrous to the species.   

[mdjohn]

to add to the discussion

a lot of the people say crab pots are the problem - do a search on crab pots kill crabs

pots vs trot lines
 
-pots kill more crabs, fish, turtles etc when they are in use than all the trotlines
-pots are like nets, they catch everything
-pots continue to kill more crabs, fish, turtles etc when they are lost.
-Trotlines don't kill anything when lost
-pots are a problem for boats and motors
-active and lost pots are a problem for fisherman
-pots catch stuff 24 hours per day every day.
-seems trotlines are more eco friendly
-pots are too effiecient at catching sea creatures

pots are banned in the rivers but you can almost walk across them at the mouth -  just a thought, ain't gonna change anything

http://www.kristakapralos.com/2010/06/lost-crab-pots-killing-off-resource/

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015045088_apwaderelictcrabpots1stldwritethru.html

and the chesapeake bay foundation says it is bad water

http://www.cbf.org/document.doc?id=172

and the argument goes on

bottom line - people are the world's greatest polluters
since 1960, the population has more than doubled which can be taken as the number of wanna be crabbers has doubled - both comm and reg
 

[tedbo]

-pots continue to kill more crabs, fish, turtles etc when they are lost.

Even with the biodegradable openings I believe this is still true. So, in effect, they compete for the same limited resource, but never get it to market.

[Mikie]

Even with the biodegradable openings I believe this is still true. So, in effect, they compete for the same limited resource, but never get it to market.

Don't want to drag up the whole argument again, but any crabber will tell you when a crab pot gets dirty crabs will NOT go in the pot. That's why they have to be pressure washed or put on the shore for a couple of weeks to dry out when they start getting dirty. What happens to a lost pot? It gets dirty VERY quickly because it's just sitting on the bottom not being attended. Most of the organisms that are found in/on lost pots are actually using them for structure/safety from prey.

[tedbo]

Believe what you want, documented reports in the industry have shown pots snagged and retrieved, with id tags proving loss years earlier, have live fish in them.  Maybe as you say it's being used as a sanctuary, but who really knows. 

I used to have a lot of faith in the research community but after the east anglia emails it seems a lot of them are just in it for the money, not facts.

[crabman1969]

Don't want to drag up the whole argument again, but any crabber will tell you when a crab pot gets dirty crabs will NOT go in the pot. That's why they have to be pressure washed or put on the shore for a couple of weeks to dry out when they start getting dirty. What happens to a lost pot? It gets dirty VERY quickly because it's just sitting on the bottom not being attended. Most of the organisms that are found in/on lost pots are actually using them for structure/safety from prey.

  If we had GRASS for everything to hide in besides old crab pots we wouldnt even be having this discussion!!

[jack1747]

I've pulled allot of ghost pots.  Only one was intact enough to have anything in it.  Most of them were only rebar with a few shards of wire still there. Course this is mostly sea water. My peeler pots only last 2-3 seasons before falling apart and they spend many months on dry land.

[mdjohn]

interesting in a conflicting way

crabbers throwing out unattended pots with buoys/floats

and boaters running over and cutting off the buoys/floats

 

I know at night, we couldn't see them, so we picked a course and didn't worry about it

nothing else that you can do

did have a friend that snagged one on his prop and ended up on the rocks around sandy point
 

[tugcapt]

interesting in a conflicting way

crabbers throwing out unattended pots with buoys/floats

and boaters running over and cutting off the buoys/floats

 

I know at night, we couldn't see them, so we picked a course and didn't worry about it

nothing else that you can do

did have a friend that snagged one on his prop and ended up on the rocks around sandy point
 

Didn't you know, it's tugboats that wreck all those pots.