BL Englund Power Plant in Beesleys Point changing to natural gas

[Ronster]

This could effect early season crabbing in the Great Egg Harbor Bay if the exhaust vent is changed.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/business/b-l-england-in-upper-township-to-convert-coal-plant/article_23adfb22-9318-11e1-9eda-0019bb2963f4.html

[cedrones]

Ron,

How do you think it might be effected?

Steve

[Ronster]

There's an exhaust vent from the plant which warms the water there.     I am not sure if that vent would continue to be used if there is a conversation.

[cedrones]

Gotcha!

[Crab Shack]

There's an exhaust vent from the plant which warms the water there.     I am not sure if that vent would continue to be used if there is a conversation.

Who would participate in the conversation, the crabs?  Where's Dr. Dolittle when you need him?    

[Dreampixels]

.

[Dreampixels]

There's an exhaust vent from the plant which warms the water there.     I am not sure if that vent would continue to be used if there is a conversation.

They should continue to vent warm water. The turbines and steam generator should work on a closed loop. River or bay water will be used to cool the steam back into water before returning to the boiler. That cooling water will be discharged down steam into the river or bay.

The closed loop keep contaminates out of the critical parts of the operation. A sealed heat exchanger is cooled with river water to condensate any remaining steam in the loop after the turbine back to water before returning to the boiler.
 

[crabbywaters]

No offence, but you crab next to this thing? What a beautiful view while spending a day in nature  . Yeah and what ever DP talking about

[Dreampixels]

No offence, but you crab next to this thing? What a beautiful view while spending a day in nature  . Yeah and what ever DP talking about

It is the way the power plants work - compare it to your larger inboard engine - you dont run salt water thru it - you run coolant and a heat exchanger which cools the coolant with sea water.

By running a closed system you can have more control on what goes into your piping, boiler and turbine - when they cost millions of bucks one uses precautions.

Hey aint bustin on ya - just splainin................

[crabbywaters]

It is the way the power plants work - compare it to your larger inboard engine - you dont run salt water thru it - you run coolant and a heat exchanger which cools the coolant with sea water.

By running a closed system you can have more control on what goes into your piping, boiler and turbine - when they cost millions of bucks one uses precautions.

Hey aint bustin on ya - just splainin................

I totally agree DP. The controlled system defiantly controls the angle of the dangle much better then all that pipe does.

[Dreampixels]

I totally agree DP. The controlled system defiantly controls the angle of the dangle much better then all that pipe does.

[Dreampixels]

Ok here is a graphic since a picture is worth a 1000 words.

[threesuns1]

Cooling the steam to heat it back up again?  Now that sounds like a waste of energy.

[Ronster]

No offence, but you crab next to this thing? What a beautiful view while spending a day in nature  . Yeah and what ever DP talking about

Yep.

[fishingtom]

Cooling the steam to heat it back up again?  Now that sounds like a waste of energy.

You can't reheat steam effectively. You condense it back to water first so you can control pressures in the boiler.  If steam were to enter the boiler directly it would displace water and possibly cause the boiler to overheat and ultimately crack and fail/

[crabbywaters]

Yep.

Maybe not the best view but heck if the crabbing is good i would crab there also.

[tedbo]

You can't reheat steam effectively. You condense it back to water first so you can control pressures in the boiler.  If steam were to enter the boiler directly it would displace water and possibly cause the boiler to overheat and ultimately crack and fail/

Not really, saturated steam is reheated all the time to produce superheated steam, many boilers are designed this way. Superheated, or dry steam is more efficient, and better for turbines.

Once it passes thru your wetwall it exits the steam drum and re-enters your superheated inlet thru the tubes and out again.

1200 lb plants have a superheat outlet temp of around 1180 F, using probally 2 1/4 chrome-moly piping, pretty hot stuff.

With the price of fuel today many of these plants use up as much of the energy as possible via domestic water, and facility heating before wasting any.

[tedbo]

From the report:
The plant employs about 75 people, and it has a production capacity of 447 megawatts of energy, but Choromanski said it rarely runs at capacity. He said one coal-fired unit will likely be shut down by the end of next year as part of the new agreement, while the one oil-fired unit will be converted for limited use.

I wonder how many of those 75 jobs will be cut, no need to move labor-intensive coal around any more, no need to maintain those hugh conveyor systems.  I bet it's a third easy.  

[threesuns1]

You can't reheat steam effectively. You condense it back to water first so you can control pressures in the boiler.  If steam were to enter the boiler directly it would displace water and possibly cause the boiler to overheat and ultimately crack and fail/

I see.

Does anyone do early crabbing on the Seneca near the C. P. Craine coal fired power plant?

[Dreampixels]

A coal fired plant up this way burns over 3 million tons of coal a year.

[tedbo]

I always thought burning coal in these plants, provided their emission equipment is calibrated and working properly produces a pretty economical product with minimal risk to the public. 

Everyones all hyped up on "green" today, in reality the technology really hasn't lived up to the expectations.

Last year Philly's mayor was touting their new "training for green jobs".

It turns out it was a bunch of 20 somethings with hardhats and photo-op teeshirts stuffing fiberglass in a mock-up wall with a windowframe.  Give me a break!

And don't forget your "green air" in your tires!  Included in the price is the pretty green valve stem cap!

Ahh it's so nice knowing we are "stewards" of a better earth!

What a load of ______!  (Fill in your own blank)

[125blackfire]

At least it will be more environmentally friendly.

[Dreampixels]

For all interested............

http://www.systhermique.com/steam-condensate/services/troubleshooting/superheated-steam/


http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/steam-engineering-tutorials/steam-engineering-principles-and-heat-transfer/superheated-steam.asp

[tedbo]

At least it will be more environmentally friendly.

Why? Because someone "says" it is?  

Take for instance this woman quoted in the article:

 Georgina Shanley, an Ocean City resident and co-founder of the local group Citizens United for Renewable Energy, still opposes the plan, saying the plant should be totally replaced with a form of renewable energy.

“The nonsense of dependence on oil and gas is really risky and damaging for our whole planet,” she said. “Enough already. We can do better than that.”

Really?  Who is the "we"; does she include herself?  What has she developed?

Wood is renewable?  Should we starting burning that for electric?

Don't misunderstand my point, I'm all for new energy sources, but the technology isn't there yet.  It all comes at a price.

These plants have scrubbers coming out the wazoo, but it's still not enough  Everyone wants to feel good about doing their part for the environment, but is unwilling to brush their own teeth unless it's hooked up to a electric motor.

People like Shanley have one agenda, tear down everything they don't like to look at.  They take marching orders from a former VP who's home consumes more electric in one month than what the avg. home uses in a year!

We've given up caves long ago, we have the ability to use cheap fuels while installing equipment which prevent the harmful byproducts from entering the environment, let's use them until we have an alternative that won't put poor nations and people in the poor house.

OK enough of my rant, here Georgina, here's your soapbox back!  

[Ronster]

Goats are renewable.   I say we put them on a big hamster wheel for energy...