+ Water temp !!

[squidspeak]

The temp. reached 65dg. in the Antarctic the other day, scientists observed an iceberg the size of Paris breaking
off the ice sheet. According to NOAA Jan.2020 was the hottest in 141 yrs.

[Wallco99]

The temp. reached 65dg. in the Antarctic the other day, scientists observed an iceberg the size of Paris breaking
off the ice sheet. According to NOAA Jan.2020 was the hottest in 141 yrs.

Awesome! Sounds like we should be catching some crabs there soon. So if January was the hottest it's been in 141 years, then that means it was HOTTER 142 years ago. So what really is your point with all this warming nonsense?

[Steve]

Here's a good resource that shows the effects of climate change and rising sea levels.

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.html

From that page, zoom into an area of interest, say the Chesapeake Bay. Click on one of the arrows to open that particular recording station. You'll get a pop-up that shows the station location and the sea level rise over a period of time. For example, I clicked the Annapolis, MD station which shows a trend of 3.67 mm/year sea-level rise. Click the "Linear Trend" link to see the actual data plotted on a graph along with the trend.

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?id=8575512

[Steve]

Oh, and by the way, 3.67 mm/year (0.145 inches/year) doesn't sound like much, but if the trend continues, sea levels will be almost 3" higher in 20 years. Or, more than 7" higher in 50 years when your adult kids are out crabbing (some piers will be underwater at high tide). And, 100 years from now, almost 15" higher. That's quite significant.

And that's if the trend continues at its current rate, some scientists are now saying that the rate will significantly increase with these much warmer temperatures.

Go back and look at that graph again. Hard to argue with facts.

[Mikie]

It's also hard to argue with the fact that the Western Plains are loaded with fossils from sea based creatures from our planet's past.
History tends to repeat itself. It might be wise to buy land in the mountains and fortify it. There are going to be an awful lot of people
trying to occupy substantially less land. I don't think putting on a carbon tax or other proposed "fixes" are going to change things, after all, there weren't any people burning petroleum based products when all of the creatures that left those fossils behind were living here. Cycles occur based on a much larger set of circumstances then the human species can control.

[Steve]

Sure there's the argument that it's a cyclical thing and that you can't win the war with Mother Nature. We all have our opinions.

If you're interested, here's a 2017 article from Yale University about the topic. It's worth the read.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-the-world-passed-a-carbon-threshold-400ppm-and-why-it-matters

If there's one takeaway from the article, it's this graph. I guess you could call that cyclical. You could also call it an abnormality.

[Mikie]

I read the article. I think we can all agree that "Climate Change" is real, has been occurring since the Earth formed, and will continue until the Earth is dead, or we as a species are no longer here to observe or record it. I believe a major event will occur, at some point in time, which will severely reduce the human population level. Whether that will result in an extreme climate adjustment would be interesting to observe. I doubt that most of us will be here to debate it, unless the current corona virus outbreak results in a pandemic which becomes "The Event". We'll see.

[squidspeak]

Awesome! Sounds like we should be catching some crabs there soon. So if January was the hottest it's been in 141 years, then that means it was HOTTER 142 years ago. So what really is your point with all this warming nonsense?

No, what it means is 142 yrs. ago one month was warmer, but the last ten yr. avg. has been the hottest on record. I hope your read the article Steve posted, pretty informative for a hack Institution like Yale. Unrelated but
I sent you a message this morning. When you get a chance read it.

[crabbymike17]

I love charts.  A decent analyst can easily spot the trending and speak to what it says.  Mikie, yes, it's changing but the question that is most overlooked by many is "why?".  Scientist go steps further to detail the root cause(s) and have warned and cried out for help in protecting the future vs. reducing industry regulations which have been a major contributor to polluting the atmosphere.  It's a tug of war since stricter regulations to protect the environment cost money and impact financial bottom lines.  And this is why it's become so political.  I guess it's time to lay this topic to rest and dream of the crabbing season opener.  We can discuss politics (or not) at the wye party.   

[Steve]

[...] yes, it's changing but the question that is most overlooked by many is "why?".  Scientists go steps further to detail the root cause(s) and have warned and cried out for help in protecting the future vs. reducing industry regulations which have been a major contributor to polluting the atmosphere.  It's a tug of war since stricter regulations to protect the environment cost money and impact financial bottom lines.  And this is why it's become so political.  I guess it's time to lay this topic to rest and dream of the crabbing season opener.  We can discuss politics (or not) at the wye party.    

And with that statement, you've hit the nail on the head!

When it costs money to solve a problem, there are a lot of people who would rather ignore or downplay the problem.

There's no question in my mind that we (mankind) are responsible for the increasing levels of CO2 in our atmosphere. No, it's not because of volcanos or other natural events, those events have been happening non-stop for millions of years with no appreciable rise in levels (see graph in above post). Levels started going up during the industrial revolution and have been rising steadily ever since (see graph below).

Before the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century, global average CO2 was about 280 ppm. During the last 800,000 years, CO2 fluctuated between about 180 ppm during ice ages and 280 ppm during interglacial warm periods. Today's rate of increase is more than 100 times faster than the increase that occurred when the last ice age ended. https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/news/7074.html

So, what we need to do is to come up with a CHEAP way to remove CO2 from our air, that way EVERYONE is on board with the issue and solution. I'm not a huge proponent of carbon taxes, etc., because we depend on cheap energy to survive. Why penalize me for using my boat that emits CO2 when there is no other affordable carbon-free propulsion method available?

So, I don't know what the solution is. But we need to come up with something or Earth will turn into Venus if we let things get out of hand.

P.S. That graph (below) stops at 2017. Levels for 2019 were 412.53 ppm, levels as of this month are 413.81 ppm.

[Mr. Ray III]

We need to make some sort of check-valve spaceship in the O-Zone that lets CO2 out but nothing in...

[Steve]

We need to make some sort of check-valve spaceship in the O-Zone that lets CO2 out but nothing in...

That is a great idea!! 

[crabbymike17]

We need to make some sort of check-valve spaceship in the O-Zone that lets CO2 out but nothing in...

Everything begins with an idea and wella - the final product is produced.   No idea is too far fetched, not even your's Ray.  As you sleep soundly, NASA is building ways to divert wayward asteroids from colliding and demolishing the earth.  It's no big deal.  When I was a youngster I used to pose the question, "Does technology drive consumerism or does consumerism drive technology?"  Smart people build stuff that they know you'll consume.    My senior thesis many, many years ago was to present a house that was completely controlled by a computer.  I designed the digital circuitry, and corresponding software to accomplish this.  That professor laughed at my concept and said, impossible!  So, I went on to be a professor myself.  Another lost patent, yet I have a few.  Computerized homes are commonplace.  "WE" as a community can solve any problem.           

[Crabbyd]

Way too funny.  I totally demolished my 40' x 40' greenhouse yesterday since there's no need for it based upon the increase in avg. temps year over year.  I'm currently enjoying a BLT with lettuce I can grow in February minus the cold snaps.  The good news is that crabs love warm water, so, crab on.  So, while avg. temps have risen, our avg. life expectancy has decreased due to 4 factors -opioids, suicide, obesity, and I forget the forth.  Statistics tell a story.  Politicians sell bridges in the dessert.  Numbers are recorded facts that cannot be denied.  Example, I can't say to DNR that a crab is 5.25" when their stick shows 5.24", they would be insulted and instantly print me a fine.  Moving ahead, lets see the crab counts for 2020.  Wishing you all the best results.  Get your gear ready and show me what you can do! 

CM

True but numbers can and are manipulated to support the "beliefs" you want them to support.  It happens everyday.  Trust me, as a cost analyst, I can manipulate any number to support the desires of those that want to spend billions of dollars on nickel ideas.

As for taxes and taxing CO2.  That's a joke.  It's another form of a money grab just like red light/speed cameras or bag taxes or casino collections.  The monies collect may go towards the purpose for a year or two but in the end, it will fund something else less important and the original cause will soon be forgotten.  I see it everyday from a work perspective.  If most citizens only knew what happens to all the funds given to the government for "special purposes" , you would be irate.

[rdbeard]

D in Md it's called the general fund, what a joke.

[Crabbyd]

D in Md it's called the general fund, what a joke.

exactly.  What happens is they create legislation that says funds collected for this cause will go to "special fund X".  When the powers decide they want to use the money for something else, they do what we call a "sweep".  Essentially any funds that hasn't been spent for the purpose of the special fund, then goes to the "general fund" and spent for something else.

People complain all the time about the casino money not funding education.  It does.  The problem is, the funds that were originally funding education is then routed for another purpose.  They don't increase the funding for education but instead fund it at roughly the same level (minus inflationary increases) but with just a different funding source.

[reds]

One question for the brain trust...

The earth tilting has how much effect on the climate change?

[coins1101]

A world wide tree planting program could wipe out two thirds of co2 and reduce effects of global warming.

[Steve]

One question for the brain trust...

The earth tilting has how much effect on the climate change?

Earth's tilt is currently 23.5 degrees and does change (it varies over a 41,000-year span from 22.1 to 24.5 degrees).

Earth's tilt is what causes the seasons and has nothing to do with climate change. As the tilt changes, the seasons become more (or less) exaggerated. At 22.1 degrees, we'd have milder summers and winters, at 24.5 we'd have hotter summers and colder winters. As I said earlier, Earth is currently at 23.5 degrees and it's on the downward (decreasing) swing, so we would expect winters and summers getting progressively milder over the next 20,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Milankovitch/milankovitch_2.php

[Wallco99]

One question for the brain trust...

The earth tilting has how much effect on the climate change?

That's been my thought for years. Or even one step further. What if Earth's axis is slightly tighter than it was years ago? If Earth moves, even a little, off of it's normal axis in either direction, then global changes to climate are imminent. Makes too much sense for some of these politically driven scientists to even consider it. So here's my solution. Wrap a giant, commercial grade come-along around the Earth. Send a team to Mars to wrap the other end, then start cranking. Pull the Earth away from the sun to where you achieve your desired temperature. Problem solved! Sound far-fetched? I'll tell you this, It is a [Sam Hill] of a lot more realistic then getting everyone on Earth to stop eating meat, traveling in cars and planes, cease having kids, and BREATHING. Come on guys, let's give the come-along a chance.