+ Water temp !!

[squidspeak]

Maybe all of the nuclear testing since WWII has put a wobble in our asis. Still can't discount Co2 spike in last 200 yrs.

[Wallco99]

Maybe all of the nuclear testing since WWII has put a wobble in our asis. Still can't discount Co2 spike in last 200 yrs.

More people breathing means more CO2. Grade school science. Time to plant more trees to offset it. And if it makes you feel better, dig the millions of tree holes with a shovel instead of a diesel powered backhoe.

[Steve]

More people breathing means more CO2. Grade school science. Time to plant more trees to offset it. And if it makes you feel better, dig the millions of tree holes with a shovel instead of a diesel powered backhoe.

Yes, more trees would help. And stop the deforestation going on in South America.

[Wallco99]

Yes, more trees would help. And stop the deforestation going on in South America.

Yep. More people around means more houses needed. More houses needed means more vacant land needed. More vacant land needed means more trees disappear. More trees disappearing means more leftover carbon in the air. Even though I have been in construction my whole life, I still hate seeing whole tracks of land being cleared for housing and commercial buildings. ESPECIALLY, these high density housing projects that are starting to pop up everywhere. I think that contributes to it much more than all the other theories and suggestions. Well, except of course, for the the "Earth moving off its axis" theory.  

[Redbone]

In the United States there are more trees now then there were 100 years ago so

[Wallco99]

In the United States there are more trees now then there were 100 years ago so

Did somebody officially count them? LOL. If true though, that Further strengthens my axis theory.

[crabbymike17]

You're killing me folks.  Scientists don't fudge numbers, although others may, nor do scientists operate in the financial sector.  Curve ball, Galileo was imprisoned and died on house arrest for expressing his scientific findings that the world was round and not flat in the 1600's AD when following up on what a Greek discovered in 500 BC?  Can you imagine how this man felt and died to share???  Thank God for smart people!  You really can't reason with ignorance. Ignorance is bliss.  Drywall is 2 dimensions.  My 7 year old can open paint cans, tuna fish cans, and can read a tape to 16th's.  I taught her the 3rd and 4th dimension.  I guess that's why she was bored when I asked her if she wanted to hang rock with me vs. launch a crab into space with helium balloons last summer.      

[Wallco99]

You're killing me folks.  Scientists don't fudge numbers, although others may, nor do scientists operate in the financial sector.  Curve ball, Galileo was imprisoned and died on house arrest for expressing his scientific findings that the world was round and not flat in the 1600's AD when following up on what a Greek discovered in 500 BC?  Can you imagine how this man felt and died to share???  Thank God for smart people!  You really can't reason with ignorance. Ignorance is bliss.  Drywall is 2 dimensions.  My 7 year old can open paint cans, tuna fish cans, and can read a tape to 16th's.  I taught her the 3rd and 4th dimension.  I guess that's why she was bored when I asked her if she wanted to hang rock with me vs. launch a crab into space with helium balloons last summer.      

Hey genius, drywall has a third dimension. LOL.

[Crabbyd]

More people breathing means more CO2. Grade school science. Time to plant more trees to offset it. And if it makes you feel better, dig the millions of tree holes with a shovel instead of a diesel powered backhoe.

I am doing our part on the trees.  We are in the process of buying 30 acres on the VA shore below Chincoteague and 28 acres of it has been put in conservation.  on the 28 acres, they just planted 800 - 1,000 trees per acre depending on species.  It is mixed pines, hardwood, softwoods and fruit trees.  It must stay forested as part of the purchase plus it keeps the taxes way down.

[Crabbyd]

You're killing me folks.  Scientists don't fudge numbers, although others may, nor do scientists operate in the financial sector.  Curve ball, Galileo was imprisoned and died on house arrest for expressing his scientific findings that the world was round and not flat in the 1600's AD when following up on what a Greek discovered in 500 BC?  Can you imagine how this man felt and died to share???  Thank God for smart people!  You really can't reason with ignorance. Ignorance is bliss.  Drywall is 2 dimensions.  My 7 year old can open paint cans, tuna fish cans, and can read a tape to 16th's.  I taught her the 3rd and 4th dimension.  I guess that's why she was bored when I asked her if she wanted to hang rock with me vs. launch a crab into space with helium balloons last summer.      

bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.........................sure they do.  If they don't get the results expected, they can/have fudged to keep the finances coming in to keep up the study    

again, sure they do.  If the finances aren't there they have no job.  

In all of my years of life, I have not seen one contractor work himself/herself out of a job.

[Wallco99]

In all of my years of life, I have not seen one contractor work himself/herself out of a job.

No, but cheap hired labor by others sure is.

[Crabbyd]

No, but cheap hired labor by others sure is.

not talking about that kind of contractor.  Talking about government type employed contractors.

[Wallco99]

not talking about that kind of contractor.  Talking about government type employed contractors.

Well you are right on that one.

[squidspeak]

I am doing our part on the trees.  We are in the process of buying 30 acres on the VA shore below Chincoteague and 28 acres of it has been put in conservation.  on the 28 acres, they just planted 800 - 1,000 trees per acre depending on species.  It is mixed pines, hardwood, softwoods and fruit trees.  It must stay forested as part of the purchase plus it keeps the taxes way down.

Plant Black Walnut trees they will be worth a lot of money for your desendents , plus you get to eat the nuts. Walnut is probably the most expensive American hardwood and is becoming more scarce to find good
mature trees. Maybe you could claim being a farmer for tax purposes.

[JimM]

Well, IMO, this has been a great thread. Differing opinions expressed with a bit of humor. There are a few more factoids to toss into the discussion, not to sway anyone's opinion on global warming, anthropogenic global warming, climate change or the total annihilation of the Earth in "12 years".

The post that indicated there are more trees in North America now than there were when the Pilgrims arrived is correct.

The post that indicated that scientists don't fudge the numbers is in error, particularly on this topic. They have had at least three "breaches of security" that demonstrated the fudging of the data. Revising the data is a full time job.

CO2 isn't a pollutant. CO will kill you in the right dosage.

There are very few ... like none ... places on Earth where the general climate has changed significantly. The hot places are still hot, cold still cold, wet still wet and dry still dry. We do have a lot of sophisticated equipment that can measure changes, no matter how large or small, to the nth degree. It's easy to get caught up in the nth degree and to that extent the planet has changed.

Correlations are not causes. For those folks that wonder what I am talking about, the fires in Australia were not caused by climate change. That they happened when the Earth warmed about 1.4 degrees does not mean the warming caused them. In fact, climate change does not cause ANY weather events, fires, earthquakes. Climate is an averaging of weather conditions over time. It isn't causal.

Are we warmer than we were 100 years ago? Of course. Once you get past that fact, the science morphs into projections and models and, of course, political solutions. As soon as there are political solutions, then there are political games being played. Again, for example, taxation and carbon credits (that can be traded) that have absolutely no chance of impacting the climate.

One last thought ... who has their hand on the thermostat for the Earth and what have we all agreed the temperature should be? We've experienced a slight warming as we come out of an ice age. There are a ton of "solutions" that have the intention of cooling the Earth. Even if we had the power to control the climate, someone step up and make the case for the "correct temperature".

In the meantime, it's a great discussion topic ... Man's Control of the Earth. More realistically we should manage our carbon footprint to the extent practical and do what humans have always done ... adapt if necessary.

I know there are folks out here that aren't going to appreciate this post. I wish them all the best!

[Mr. Ray III]

I am doing our part on the trees.  We are in the process of buying 30 acres on the VA shore below Chincoteague and 28 acres of it has been put in conservation.  on the 28 acres, they just planted 800 - 1,000 trees per acre depending on species.  It is mixed pines, hardwood, softwoods and fruit trees.  It must stay forested as part of the purchase plus it keeps the taxes way down.

My property has 3 parcels.  I changed two of them to ag use.  Taxes went from $2,000 per parcel to $50 each.  

In Cecil County, they've paid guys to put the land into conservation, and it aint chump change either.

[Crabbyd]

Plant Black Walnut trees they will be worth a lot of money for your desendents , plus you get to eat the nuts. Walnut is probably the most expensive American hardwood and is becoming more scarce to find good
mature trees. Maybe you could claim being a farmer for tax purposes.

Unfortunately the trees were planted last spring.  Although I believe there are some walnuts mixed in.  I can look at the list again.  There is an extensive list of which tress and a percentage of each tree on the property.

As for the taxes.  All our properties are "tree farms" and hence the lower taxes.  Our St Mary's property is 25 acres and the taxes are $44/yr.  I'm not sure you can get much cheaper then that.

[Crabbyd]

My property has 3 parcels.  I changed two of them to ag use.  Taxes went from $2,000 per parcel to $50 each. 

In Cecil County, they've paid guys to put the land into conservation.

That is the same situation on this property in VA.  28 of the 30 acres is trees in perpetuity.  We have a 2 acre homesite and the rest will be woods.  It originally was a tomato field for Delmonte.  They called it a plastic farm.  The entire 30 acres was covered in black plastic and irrigation underneath with tomatoes in rows for 30 acres.  They used nothing mother nature gave them while pumping water out of the lowlands of the eastern shore.  Delmonte processing plant is 15-20 miles away from the property

[Wallco99]

Well, IMO, this has been a great thread. Differing opinions expressed with a bit of humor. There are a few more factoids to toss into the discussion, not to sway anyone's opinion on global warming, anthropogenic global warming, climate change or the total annihilation of the Earth in "12 years".

The post that indicated there are more trees in North America now than there were when the Pilgrims arrived is correct.

The post that indicated that scientists don't fudge the numbers is in error, particularly on this topic. They have had at least three "breaches of security" that demonstrated the fudging of the data. Revising the data is a full time job.

CO2 isn't a pollutant. CO will kill you in the right dosage.

There are very few ... like none ... places on Earth where the general climate has changed significantly. The hot places are still hot, cold still cold, wet still wet and dry still dry. We do have a lot of sophisticated equipment that can measure changes, no matter how large or small, to the nth degree. It's easy to get caught up in the nth degree and to that extent the planet has changed.

Correlations are not causes. For those folks that wonder what I am talking about, the fires in Australia were not caused by climate change. That they happened when the Earth warmed about 1.4 degrees does not mean the warming caused them. In fact, climate change does not cause ANY weather events, fires, earthquakes. Climate is an averaging of weather conditions over time. It isn't causal.

Are we warmer than we were 100 years ago? Of course. Once you get past that fact, the science morphs into projections and models and, of course, political solutions. As soon as there are political solutions, then there are political games being played. Again, for example, taxation and carbon credits (that can be traded) that have absolutely no chance of impacting the climate.

One last thought ... who has their hand on the thermostat for the Earth and what have we all agreed the temperature should be? We've experienced a slight warming as we come out of an ice age. There are a ton of "solutions" that have the intention of cooling the Earth. Even if we had the power to control the climate, someone step up and make the case for the "correct temperature".

In the meantime, it's a great discussion topic ... Man's Control of the Earth. More realistically we should manage our carbon footprint to the extent practical and do what humans have always done ... adapt if necessary.

I know there are folks out here that aren't going to appreciate this post. I wish them all the best!

I nominate Jim for team leader. Do I hear a second???

[tom on the rocks]

I usually pass over an article that long, but i read this one and it falls in line with my feelings. So I am going to 2nd the motion for team leader.