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Author Topic: Does food = size  (Read 10534 times)
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crabbygramps
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« on: February 12, 2008, 08:58:14 PM »


 Going back to question raised awhile back by "his pinchness" Shocked Stated I believe was the quandary about crab size between N.J. crabs and Md. crabs harvested at about the same "latitudes". Why were the Md. crabs so much larger?? Relatively same temps and daylight...( or moonlight ) so the molts in theory would be also similar..( yes? no? ) Undecided If the temps and weather and lunar activities over these areas, which are fairly close,     are not the common denominator..then there must be another explanation Wink All, or almost all, of the lunar lunacy has been discussed to a fault...( sorry Pinchster)
 so lets go scientific..This time I have to side with what the facts , as read here, and 'his pinchness" have stated. "size"drives the need to molt. (score one for Pinchy!) Which to me brings us to growth rate..(imo) The greatest contributer to growth is.............food!! Or protein or the lack there of. Not only do I follow the plight of the Chesapeake. I also belong to SBB ( save barnegat bay and Reclam the bay.)  Nitrogen and other chemicals have all but killed off the SAV and thus the habitat for crabs and little fishies and  critters the crabs feed on.There were days last year when my grandson and I got 1 1/2 bushels a day. More than once...Now...a Jersey bushel is usually 110 to 120 crabs. Which means, we were getting very close to 180 to 200 crabs per day!!!..albeit 1 1/2 bushel. What would the total be in Md. (especially ) the Wye if I had 180 crabs on board. All this said, it seems to me the largest difference is food or Bio mass support. Does this make sense to anyone else??? We have numbers, we just can't feed em'.
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008, 09:07:56 PM »

CG, I'm sure you can remember when the NJ crabs were as big as what we're getting in MD now.

You raise a good point. Wish I had the answer, but I barely made it thru High School.  Wink
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2008, 10:43:46 PM »

The PINCH wizard will know thw answer to that ? Wink laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008, 11:07:33 PM »

Jersey's crabs are small cause we get all the lowlifes taking not even legal size, and I have ever rarely seen fish and game officers around to check, atleast DNR is around more so
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2008, 11:09:12 PM »

look out do we have a new PINCHY.  laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2008, 11:11:08 PM »

 I wrote in English no other language

and i have nothing to say about the moon or all that

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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2008, 11:13:48 PM »

 laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
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Pinchy
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2008, 12:29:26 AM »

...crab size between N.J. crabs and Md. crabs harvested at about the same "latitudes". Why were the Md. crabs so much larger?? Relatively same temps and daylight...( or moonlight ) so the molts in theory would be also similar...If the temps and weather and lunar activities over these areas, which are fairly close, are not the common denominator..then there must be another explanation Wink

That's a good question, lots of people are pondering that one. Maybe it has something to do with water temperature and salinity. Huh You probably know that jimmies like fresher water; seems like the Chesapeake has a much greater area of warmer, fresher water than most of the NJ shoreline which is close to the ocean, is colder, and with higher salinity. Huh It also seems that a river like the Bohemia has massive amounts of eelgrass which is rare in NJ; crabs eat vegetation too. Crabby, you are probably right to suggest that the Chesapeake is really a gigantic nursery for fish and crabs, and offers the kind of temperature, salinity gradient, and food supply not available on the NJ coast. What do you think?

Where I crabbed last summer there is little development, and I saw maybe five other people in three months, no comms, no pots. Lots of clam beds (which crabs like), so like you said you'd think the crabs would get bigger than they do. Who knows? Huh
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2008, 12:34:04 AM »

Jersey's crabs are small cause we get all the lowlifes taking not even legal size, and I have ever rarely seen fish and game officers around to check, atleast DNR is around more so

For what it's worth, I had my cooler inspected by DNR three times last year...
But you're right, there isn't nearly enough enforcement. NJ lawmen are very busy with the drunk driving checkpoints.
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2008, 02:49:46 AM »

I got checked 3x over on dock rd last yr. 


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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 02:51:27 AM »

If food = size, would it be better for everyone to throw their used/ leftover bait into the water before they leave after crabbing?

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crabbygramps
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2008, 06:31:57 AM »

If food = size, would it be better for everyone to throw their used/ leftover bait into the water before they leave after crabbing?
 Absolutely!! Never leave without feeding the critters..( and picking up a little trash!)

 Was checked 3 times last year by "conservation officers"..witnessed many more checks.

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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2008, 08:58:43 AM »

 From what I understand salinity has alot to do with crab growth.
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2008, 09:56:22 AM »

being originally from philly, i whould typically blame everything on "jersey lowlifes"   Grin Grin ... but in this case, it most likely is the salinity, since saltier areas of md have smaller crabs as well, while areas of FL and LA, with lower salinity have large crabs.

so lets again form a hypothesis:
null= no correlation between salinity and size
alternate= connection betwen salinity and size
http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&issn=1548-8659&volume=128&issue=3&page=499&ct=1


Hypothesis #2  smaller size observed in current NJ compared to past is reduced habitat in lower salinity areas

ill try to find more studies on this once i get to the lab
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2008, 11:44:12 AM »

You probably know that jimmies like fresher water; seems like the Chesapeake has a much greater area of warmer, fresher water than most of the NJ shoreline which is close to the ocean, is colder, and with higher salinity.

Ahh, it's nice to be able to so easily find and quote an authority laugh. Although this was speculation, it was informed speculation, and probably not the only influence on crab size. One thing we can rule out absolutely: the moon has no effect on crab growth and size.

being originally from philly, i whould typically blame everything on "jersey lowlifes"   Grin Grin ... but in this case, it most likely is the salinity, since saltier areas of md have smaller crabs as well, while areas of FL and LA, with lower salinity have large crabs.

so lets again form a hypothesis:
null= no correlation between salinity and size
alternate= connection betwen salinity and size
http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&issn=1548-8659&volume=128&issue=3&page=499&ct=1


Hypothesis #2  smaller size observed in current NJ compared to past is reduced habitat in lower salinity areas

ill try to find more studies on this once i get to the lab

This is nice, but let's face it: salinity gradients affect the local biota which also impacts food supply and probably O2 levels. Another fact is that MD crabs begin a northward migration from a large body of water far to the south of NJ, thus gaining a temporal advantage on the growth season. Cheesy
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2008, 12:07:28 PM »

Pinchy-  Since you're the crab expert... here's the question for you... lots of guys are talking about this.... listen carefully:

Last year has hot and dry.  Its no secret that a lot of crabs migrated more northward than they normally do.  Crabs were found and caught in areas that they "normally" are not.  Some rivers that hardly see any crabs in the summer were full of them, especially way up at the heads of some creeks.  some people say the crabs didn't move around as much as they normally do.  This is attributed to the high heat and salt content.  I've heard from more than one old-timer that they believe the crabs buried in the mud earlier to escape the less-than-favorable conditions.  (If this is true, I  would think he crab dredge survey would show this to some degree... and so far, that doesn't appear to be the case, at least from what I have heard)

So the question is this:  Did the crabs bury in the mud where they were in December, or did they migrate back out to the mainstem of the bay and southerly down the bay?  If they wintered over in the creeks, that means crabbers should start in the same places they left them in Nov/Dec.  If they migrated as they normally do, they we should start south and in deeper waters, and out towards the mouths of the creeks???

You have 10 minutes.  I want a full report on this, complete with an annotated bibliography.  Please refrain from using an Latin... its does nothing for me.

Thanks Mr. Pinchy!
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2008, 12:46:40 PM »

Pinchy-  Since you're the crab expert... here's the question for you...
Did the crabs bury in the mud where they were in December, or did they migrate back out to the mainstem of the bay and southerly down the bay? 

 laugh Jokes aside, please - people like Jack1747 are the crab experts, if there is such a thing. C. sapidus behavior is in many ways mysterious, the best any of us can do is to use this forum for what it was intended: to discuss and speculate about our favorite delicious arthropod. It is true that some of us also enjoy creating lengthy, somewhat pretentious, arguments based on logical deliberations.

That said, in answer to your extremely well-crafted question, I dunnoSad
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2008, 01:28:00 PM »

Pinchy-  Since you're the crab expert... here's the question for you... lots of guys are talking about this.... listen carefully:

Last year has hot and dry.  Its no secret that a lot of crabs migrated more northward than they normally do.  Crabs were found and caught in areas that they "normally" are not.  Some rivers that hardly see any crabs in the summer were full of them, especially way up at the heads of some creeks.  some people say the crabs didn't move around as much as they normally do.  This is attributed to the high heat and salt content.  I've heard from more than one old-timer that they believe the crabs buried in the mud earlier to escape the less-than-favorable conditions.  (If this is true, I  would think he crab dredge survey would show this to some degree... and so far, that doesn't appear to be the case, at least from what I have heard)

So the question is this:  Did the crabs bury in the mud where they were in December, or did they migrate back out to the mainstem of the bay and southerly down the bay?  If they wintered over in the creeks, that means crabbers should start in the same places they left them in Nov/Dec.  If they migrated as they normally do, they we should start south and in deeper waters, and out towards the mouths of the creeks???

You have 10 minutes.  I want a full report on this, complete with an annotated bibliography.  Please refrain from using an Latin... its does nothing for me.

Thanks Mr. Pinchy!



OMG,  Weeder you are too much brother.  I don't care who you are , but that there was pretty frickin funny.

Mr Pinchy you have arrived.  I think the Seaweed monster just baptised you so welcome into crazyville.

 laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

BTW, is it Professor Pinchy, Mr Pinchy..?  Inquiring minds want to know.  Also being that you live in the center of Philly, are you working on your PHD in Crabs maybe at like the Worton School of Business or did Penn open a  new crab major.....   Grin laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

......Cdog
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2008, 01:46:00 PM »

Professor Pinchmeister-

My question(s) is/was/are legitimate... I am looking for real answers as to what the crabs did/will do this coming year... Grin

"I dunno" is all I'm going to get? Huh

I am CRUSHED Angry Angry Grin Grin Grin

 laugh laugh

Fire up the wikipedia... I need answers, buddy! Grin Grin Grin  Just a joke.  I know you're not just using that as your only source of info.

Jack, you've been appointed as the expert now... so what are your thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 01:47:48 PM by Seaweed » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2008, 01:50:50 PM »

i refused to accept any appointment via Professor Pinchy.   Angry Tongue Grin
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