June 17, 2018, 08:04:16 PM
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
 
 
 
Total time logged in: 0 minutes.
 
   Home   Help Login Register  

     
 

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Watermen ponder suit over crabbing plans  (Read 11681 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
horsefly
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4469
Location: Bath,NC......Home of Blackbeard and Hard Crabs


Sunrise in Bath, NC




Ignore
« on: April 23, 2008, 10:40:11 PM »

www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.crabs23apr23,0,1500401.story

baltimoresun.com
Watermen ponder suit over crabbing plans
Proposed rules by Md. and Va. would reduce the harvest
By Rona Kobell

Sun reporter

April 23, 2008

Chesapeake Bay watermen are considering legal action over proposals in Maryland and Virginia to reduce the crab harvest, arguing that the states shouldn't punish crabbers for government's failure to clean up the bay.

Lawyers for the watermen say it is too early to tell how and when they might proceed with litigation. But even the talk of lawsuits is unusual for watermen in the two states, who have mostly preferred to work through their legislatures to ease the hurt of previous regulations.

Maryland watermen have hired William "Sandy" McAllister Jr., a prominent Eastern Shore attorney with the firm Miles & Stockbridge, to advise them on how to proceed in the face of the coming restrictions. Virginia watermen are being advised by Lee Anne Washington, a waterman's daughter who practices law on Virginia's Northern Neck - home to many of the state's crabbers.

State officials say they must take steps to significantly reduce the number of crabs - especially female crabs - taken from the bay because the population has plummeted. But McAllister said watermen were not given nearly enough notice of the rules scheduled to take effect next month. Many weren't expecting such restrictions when they ordered their equipment, refurbished their boats and signed contracts with seasonal workers to pick crabs - endeavors that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

"It's just incredible that such an important component of the Eastern Shore's economy, and the bay's economy, would be subjected to this dramatic regulation without the time necessary to evaluate the impact," McAllister said. "They're regulating the heritage of the Chesapeake Bay out of existence."

While legal action by watermen would be unusual for this region, seeking remedies in the court is not unprecedented. Watermen from Maryland's Smith Island sued three decades ago for the right to oyster outside their home Somerset County and the right to fish and crab in Virginia.

North Carolina fishermen sued the federal government in 1997 over flounder limits and again in 2006 over restrictions on fishing grouper and snapper. This year, Ohio fishermen sued their state over new restrictions on commercial fishing in the Great Lakes.

McAllister's firm has been retained by the Maryland Watermen's Association and several county watermen's groups. He represented a Cambridge developer who was forced to scale back plans for a huge resort and residential community near the Blackwater National Wildlife Refuge. He is currently working with a Delaware company that wants to build a sand and gravel operation on Marshyhope Creek.

Maryland Department of Natural Resources officials released their proposed crab rules this week. They include closing the season for females seven weeks early and imposing a system of bushel limits.

Though the restrictions were not as severe as some crabbers had feared, watermen said they will still disproportionately hurt Lower Eastern Shore crabbers and picking houses.

Virginia watermen are exploring legal action over the failure of the state and federal governments to clean up the bay, Washington said. Scientists have long known that habitat plays a role in the abundance of crabs, and pollution from sewage and farm runoff has helped to kill the grasses where crabs live.

"They're interested in getting to the root of the problem, not just stopping the regulations," she said. "The watermen are not a source of pollution for the bay. They do harvest seafood, but they've been harvesting seafood for hundreds of years. What has changed is the amount of pollution making its way into the bay."

Virginia approved new rules yesterday. Among other changes, the state will close its century-old winter dredge fishery, in which hibernating, pregnant females were raked from the bottom. The state also ordered a 30 percent reduction in peeler pots and a 15 percent reduction in hard pots.

Virginia Watermen's Association Vice President Ken Smith said he would like to see the restrictions rolled back, but that is a separate issue from water quality. He said several environmental groups have talked about joining the Virginia watermen if they pursue legal action.

"The degradation of the bay has cost a lot of us our livelihoods," Smith said. "That's where we think we have a true issue, where we could pursue it legally."
Fishermen in California have for two decades been fighting the federal government over the loss of water from the Sacramento and San Joaquin rivers, which has devastated salmon populations. The government has taken the water for irrigation.

Zeke Grader, executive director of the Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen's Associations, said he has talked to Maryland watermen about their plight. He said litigation is expensive and frustrating, but often necessary. "Sometimes these things will take decades," he said, "but you've got to do it, because that's the only way to get relief."

Carl Tobias, a constitutional law professor at the University of Richmond, said that a Virginia lawsuit over habitat or a Maryland one over economic hardship would be difficult to win. On the habitat side, Tobias said, the lawyers would have to figure out whether to sue in federal or state court and how to prove responsibility for failing to clean up the bay.

Though Tobias questions why the states couldn't have decided on restrictions well before the season started, he's not sure there's any legal justification for compensation.

"Ethically and morally, you owe them something, but I don't know that you do as a matter of law," Tobias said. "Crabs are a public resource. As much as I'd like to see the watermen treated fairly, I don't know you can make that argument."

[email protected]

Patrick Lynch of The Daily Press in Newport News, Va., contributed to this article.

Copyright © 2008, The Baltimore Sun


That hit the nail on the head there, but those reactions might have come way too late IMHO, as someone on here stated" the bay will never be as we once remembered it".......and now that will hold true for generations to come.

 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 10:43:47 PM by horsefly » Logged

Lots of crabbers and crab lovers on here. If you enjoy crabs, lot's of info and good chat about crabs. Why not go ahead and donate to this forum. Deep down after doing research on here and chatting with others,you will find useful info from some new friends.ENJOY!!
jack1747
Lifetime Member
Global Moderator
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 18373
Location: Virginias Eastern Shore - Pocomoke Sound


Crab'n is a way of life....


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 09:18:47 AM »

i wish someone would get it right,  it is a 30% reduction in hardcrab pots.  15% now and 15% 1/1/09
Logged

"Helping to Moderate the BCA since 2003"
madcrabber1113
Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2435
Location: earleville maryland


http://www.bluecrab.info/forum/index.php?action=dl




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 03:35:04 PM »

Well at least the lawyers will make out  Lips Sealed  Angry
Logged
WVCrabman
Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 73
Location: Berkeley Springs, WV





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 06:08:50 PM »

It isn't right! So because the bay has been unhappy to the craps in past years. We should have the right to remove them until there is nomore. Lawyers Suck. Angry
Logged
ChrisS
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5814
Location: Baltimore, Md





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 06:18:59 PM »

....it shouldn't just be watermen interested in sueing the States for the condition and continued degrading of the bay, everyone should sue!!!
Logged

in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

horsefly
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4469
Location: Bath,NC......Home of Blackbeard and Hard Crabs


Sunrise in Bath, NC




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 06:32:45 PM »

....it shouldn't just be watermen interested in sueing the States for the condition and continued degrading of the bay, everyone should sue!!!
I wonder how that would work, or even better.....all the states with bad or degrading water quality get on the law suit. Weall cold march on the Mall to Capital Hill to the steps of the Supreme Court, might get noticed then.
Logged

Lots of crabbers and crab lovers on here. If you enjoy crabs, lot's of info and good chat about crabs. Why not go ahead and donate to this forum. Deep down after doing research on here and chatting with others,you will find useful info from some new friends.ENJOY!!
ChrisS
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5814
Location: Baltimore, Md





Ignore
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 06:35:28 PM »

...someone should be held responsible!!!
Logged

in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty
horsefly
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4469
Location: Bath,NC......Home of Blackbeard and Hard Crabs


Sunrise in Bath, NC




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 06:37:14 PM »

...someone should be held responsible!!!
WE,US AND THEM AND YOU Wink
Logged

Lots of crabbers and crab lovers on here. If you enjoy crabs, lot's of info and good chat about crabs. Why not go ahead and donate to this forum. Deep down after doing research on here and chatting with others,you will find useful info from some new friends.ENJOY!!
ChrisS
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5814
Location: Baltimore, Md





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 06:50:49 PM »

....sure, we're all to blame......but, I am not the regulator, it's our local and state governments' responsibilty to protect what we can not by legislation and the distribution of proper funding to prevent accidents and over exposures. Why is Chemlawn still in business in the Chesapeake bay watershed when the products it uses are directly linked to killing the bay. Why are we paying a Flush tax when all it does is upgrade sewage treatment plants, yet also allow through loopholes for local municipalities to build more and increase it's tax base....pushing the "upgraded" treatment plant past capacity again? We're paying for clean water, but we're not getting it. That money is being used elsewhere.
Logged

in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty
jack1747
Lifetime Member
Global Moderator
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 18373
Location: Virginias Eastern Shore - Pocomoke Sound


Crab'n is a way of life....


WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 06:51:33 PM »

....it shouldn't just be watermen interested in sueing the States for the condition and continued degrading of the bay, everyone should sue!!!
stupid i think it was to be better by 2010?  Huh Not gona be, so the states say  oops we missed  so sorry...  wall
Logged

"Helping to Moderate the BCA since 2003"

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

jack1747
Lifetime Member
Global Moderator
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 18373
Location: Virginias Eastern Shore - Pocomoke Sound


Crab'n is a way of life....


WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 06:53:35 PM »

....sure, we're all to blame......but, I am not the regulator, it's our local and state governments' responsibilty to protect what we can not by legislation and the distribution of proper funding to prevent accidents and over exposures. Why is Chemlawn still in business in the Chesapeake bay watershed when the products it uses are directly linked to killing the bay. Why are we paying a Flush tax when all it does is upgrade sewage treatment plants, yet also allow through loopholes for local municipalities to build more and increase it's tax base....pushing the "upgraded" treatment plant past capacity again? We're paying for clean water, but we're not getting it. That money is being used elsewhere.
one thing i do know is follow the buck... its all about money   Cry
Logged

"Helping to Moderate the BCA since 2003"
ChrisS
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5814
Location: Baltimore, Md





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2008, 06:55:03 PM »

The state of Maryland payed more money to accomidate presidential candiate, Barrack Obama, during his recent campaign here in Maryland then it spent on the bay all year. I care more about the health of the bay, more so than I care about whether or not Mr. Obama wins the state of Maryland in the primaries......and for that, someone should be held responsible!
Logged

in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty
long green crabber
In Memoriam 12/2011
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2252
Location: balto. county


crabbin` cruiser




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2008, 07:11:52 PM »

WE,US AND THEM AND YOU Wink
and the cows and chickens,horses too.   lgc
Logged
madcrabber1113
Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2435
Location: earleville maryland


http://www.bluecrab.info/forum/index.php?action=dl




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2008, 07:58:28 PM »

Watched some farmers spray about 500 acres with herbicide a week ago and god did it stink!Did I mention the farms are on the river?No pond no nothing to try and contain the runoff!It will run right into the river as well as the ground water!Nice drinking water in those wells!On this stretch of road I am referring to there are mostly farms and they are all surrounded by rivers.
Logged
ChrisS
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5814
Location: Baltimore, Md





Ignore
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2008, 08:03:38 PM »

....farms seem to be easy to point the finger at, I am unsure if the herbicides they are required to use are "environmentally" friendly, but I'd like to think they are and if not, that's just another way our gov't is letting us down. As far as fertilizer, it costs to much to farmers to have it run off. Would you rather see a farm, or a new development where a farm once was?
Logged

in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

madcrabber1113
Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2435
Location: earleville maryland


http://www.bluecrab.info/forum/index.php?action=dl




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2008, 08:10:13 PM »

The stuff they use is far more lethal than what gets sold to the public.I own a farm so I have no agenda just stating facts.As far as what my preference for my view goes of someone elses property it really is not my business as I don't own it and this country is supposedly not Socialist.
Logged
ChrisS
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5814
Location: Baltimore, Md





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2008, 08:15:10 PM »

....it's diluted Round-up, nothing more nothing less.

So, it doesn't matter to you whether or not a farm is sold to development?
Logged

in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty
madcrabber1113
Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2435
Location: earleville maryland


http://www.bluecrab.info/forum/index.php?action=dl




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2008, 08:22:06 PM »

You are totally wrong.You have to have a license to even buy the stuff.I will ask the farmer the names of some of this stuff it is nasty.As I said before I can't dictate what happens with land I don't own.I didn't want to see my farm turned into houses so I bought it like one does in a free market society.I wish I could buy more and I am working toward that goal it's what motivates me to deal with all the [curd] I deal with every day.Some of those farmers have to sell for many reasons and who am I to tell them they can't and loose everything they have worked for all their lives?In my particular area when a farm is for sale usually someone buys it and preserves it for it's hunting,fishing and crabbing location.As well as the fact that we want to preserve it.
Logged
ChrisS
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5814
Location: Baltimore, Md





Ignore
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2008, 08:24:37 PM »

....So, with all the "we're all free to fly with the birds and swim with the fish" BS aside, you would rather see farm land than a development on that land? Correct?
Logged

in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty
madcrabber1113
Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2435
Location: earleville maryland


http://www.bluecrab.info/forum/index.php?action=dl




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2008, 08:27:29 PM »

I am unable to communicate my point to you.I don't own it,none of my business.Should I tell you what you can do with your property?I don't like your trailor with that Bobcat on it get rid of it and go broke.
Logged

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
 
Home
 
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder


Google visited last this page October 09, 2017, 03:55:47 AM