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Author Topic: Bay-wide Blue Crab Winter Dredge Survey, update 2008  (Read 20540 times)
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Crabby Crabber
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« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2009, 06:21:33 PM »

I'd vote for him !

As long as I didn't have to swing a chad .....      lol



sorry to you florida boys
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Mr. Ray III
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« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2009, 07:01:05 PM »

I can't blame the commercial guys for being pissed off.



FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!!!!

and what I find every year is that this topic ends up turning the comm against the recs and vice a versa.  keep in my fella's we all have a stake in this to one degree or another....I think the gov't almost wants to divide and conquer us.  turn us against each other than they can slide in some more rules and regs... meanwhile we are all to busy fighting amongst ourselves......in the end I think we all want what is best for the bay and tributaries and the habitat and the crab..... question is agreeing on that one.....Whether we are trying to make a living at it or wanting to catch a few dozen for a family gathering...we all better realize we all are in this together to some degree.....and need to support crabbers in general.. no disrespect to either side.. just feel like we all need to support each other as fellow crabbers...the gov't will have no problem telling us what we can and can not do.... and oh yeah that will now cost you an extra zillion $$$$$



No disrespect here but both sides need to have regs that are fair to them.  Comms get the females cut and recs (i feel) didn't get there fair share.  I have no problems with recs what so ever.  I've helped out pleanty with trotlining but come on, 2 bushels a boat is MORE then enough IMHO.
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Dreampixels
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« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2009, 07:24:31 PM »

I don't know.    There aren't too many people out there who would put "10 years down the road" ahead of "taking care of my loved ones today" in terms of their willingness to make a living.    I can't blame the commercial guys for being pissed off.



This is exactly the problem. They had a man on TV one night who's job was to invent Chemical Weapons. He was on of the main players. As the Cold War was winding down the government went to him and asked him, what is the best way to neutralize them. His responce was "I don't know, you only wanted to know how to make them."

We need to think farther down the road. The idea that I can produce this, build that or what ever and sell for this much. WE as consumers would never ever pay what a product cost if the whole cost were included in it.

The cost I speak is down the the cleansers used to clean up after the product is made, cost to clean the pollution from the air that the trucks moving it made..............all this and everything it took to produce it including the methane gas from the milk giving cows.........those are The actual costs and NONE of us are willing to pay the REAL cost...............THIS IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM.

What does to cost make my Big Screen TV when I wish to leave the earth and environment EXACTLY as it was before I did anything.
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Mikie
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« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2009, 07:26:00 PM »

The problem I have with the crab dredge survey is - they RANDOMLY survey 1500 places each year. They never use the same places year after year. Under these conditions, I would think it would take a VERY long time (many years) to come up with a viable average, if ever. Unlike the striped bass survey which goes to the same locations, year after year, and makes the same number of tows with the net, year after year, and records the varying species. After a few years, different weather patterns become part of the average. Some years the Choptank is good - some years the Upper Bay - some years the Chester - etc., etc.. I can't see the random crab dredge survey giving the same type of results.

As far as not catching as many crabs in general as years ago, I agree. But I also remember crabbing at Wye Landing in the early 1970's and being able to park in the lot or within 100 yards of it. I could rent a boat at Hartge's in the narrows or launch by The Fishermen's Inn and crab around Hog Island or Goodhand's Creek or Kirwan Creek without fighting for a spot. Up until 4 or 5 years ago, I could crab in front of my house, or find a spot in Shipping Creek or Cox Creek with no problem. Now, everyplace is a zoo most of the time. There are MANY more people crabbing then ever before and I blame a lot of the increase on the INTERNET. People who would have never considered trying to catch a crab read about it on these forums and get some free info and here they come. I am not at all surprised that crabs are harder to catch - I AM surprised that we can still catch as many as we do. In good times the bottom must be literally covered with them, and I hope they can continue!
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Mr. Ray III
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« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2009, 08:00:04 PM »

Thats why I said the dredge survey is a crock and Mikie, your reason is only one of the reasons why I believe that...
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« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2009, 08:22:00 PM »

But... I live in a pristine area.  No or very little Rec. pressure.  Less Commerical pressure than 10 years ago.  And there are less crabs.  Nothing is going to save it as long as development and farming is aloud to take away the habitat.  Farms right up to the ditches that pour into the Bay..  Cry  You youngester will Never see it the way it was.... To late. 
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« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2009, 08:55:41 PM »

The problem I have with blaming anything on the farms is - there are far FEWER farms now then there were in the past. Thirty or forty years ago, farms were the ONLY industry on the Shore (besides watermen) and the people were either on the farms or in the LITTLE, scattered towns. Crabbing and fishing were excellent. Now we have far fewer farms and far MORE houses and people, and the towns have grown immensely. I have to put the blame on increased human population - and there isn't anyway that we're going to fix that!
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« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2009, 10:45:02 PM »

I'd bet alot of the problem started with the unfettered use of road salt in the late 70's.  Just seems to me thats when all the streams went from diverse fresh water ecosystems to rust colored drainage ditches.  When those streams were full of water grasses and such they were able to absorb a good % of phosphorus and nitrogen before they made it to the bay.  Those same streams were the nursery's to hatchlings of a great deal of our fish stock.  Also, while the # of farms has diminished, the # of lawns with the thick green grass have replaced them.  Instead of the farmer spreading 10-10-10 in the spring, you have chem-lawn spraying throughout the year.
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« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2009, 12:41:56 AM »


Up until 4 or 5 years ago, I could crab in front of my house, or find a spot in Shipping Creek or Cox Creek with no problem. Now, everyplace is a zoo most of the time. There are MANY more people crabbing then ever before and I blame a lot of the increase on the INTERNET. People who would have never considered trying to catch a crab read about it on these forums and get some free info and here they come. I am not at all surprised that crabs are harder to catch - I AM surprised that we can still catch as many as we do. In good times the bottom must be literally covered with them, and I hope they can continue!

SOOOOOOOO. Its the bluecrab archives fault? Da mmit Steve! Look what you did creating this forum and dispensing free info! SHEEEIT! 4 or 5 years ago? Didn't you start this thing about then? Thats it, the blue crab forum screwed up crabbing! Just Kill this site and the good times will return!
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« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2009, 08:32:16 AM »

good times may not return so quick but it might not get worse if less were crabbing.
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« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2009, 09:20:08 AM »

The problem I have with blaming anything on the farms is - there are far FEWER farms now then there were in the past. Thirty or forty years ago, farms were the ONLY industry on the Shore (besides watermen) and the people were either on the farms or in the LITTLE, scattered towns. Crabbing and fishing were excellent. Now we have far fewer farms and far MORE houses and people, and the towns have grown immensely. I have to put the blame on increased human population - and there isn't anyway that we're going to fix that!
I agree but farming is more intense now.  For instance, yesterday they sprayed the fields around me.  The ground is frozen solid.  Undecided  On the shore there is more poultry waste than 10 years ago and less fields to spread it on.  Don't let them kid you about improved handling of the manure.  It comes out of the houses and goes right on the fields.. Runoff from new construction probably isn't a problem do to storm water management plans now a days.  It is the older areas that are a problem because there is no way to retrofit them with storm management. Wharehouse creek is a prefect example.  It got its name from the wharehouse that boats used to come up to.  Now its nothing more than a drainage ditch due to the silt caused by farming.  Granted it was before anyone realilized what was happening to the Bay. Can't be fixed now..
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« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2009, 10:00:55 AM »

Here is another idea..... we could PAVE THE BAY... NOT SAVE THE BAY.. BY PAVING THE BAY we could seal in all the nutrients and leave it alone for abit and then POOF.... everything would be great again....

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Undecided Grin laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

in reality it is a combination of everything.. a littel over harvesting a resource that has been on the decline from over development, pollution, fertlizier runoff, lack of oysters to filter the water which then reduces the amount of sunlight penetration, which leads to a lack of grasses, a overstocking of one of the main crab predators the rockfish by the millions....  gee should I continue.... it is easy to point fingers but we alll know it is a combination of alot of things and we all have a hand in it to some degree.....

so other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the Play...?

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« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2009, 10:11:40 AM »

I agree but farming is more intense now.  For instance, yesterday they sprayed the fields around me.  The ground is frozen solid.  Undecided  On the shore there is more poultry waste than 10 years ago and less fields to spread it on.  Don't let them kid you about improved handling of the manure.  It comes out of the houses and goes right on the fields.. Runoff from new construction probably isn't a problem do to storm water management plans now a days.  It is the older areas that are a problem because there is no way to retrofit them with storm management. Wharehouse creek is a prefect example.  It got its name from the wharehouse that boats used to come up to.  Now its nothing more than a drainage ditch due to the silt caused by farming.  Granted it was before anyone realilized what was happening to the Bay. Can't be fixed now..
The farms around us have absolutely no silt runoff control and have silted in the creeks.You used to be able to take boats up in them not now and there is no housing preassure just farms with no sediment ponds or anything.
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Mr. Ray III
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« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2009, 10:38:12 AM »

The problem I have with blaming anything on the farms is - there are far FEWER farms now then there were in the past. Thirty or forty years ago, farms were the ONLY industry on the Shore (besides watermen) and the people were either on the farms or in the LITTLE, scattered towns. Crabbing and fishing were excellent. Now we have far fewer farms and far MORE houses and people, and the towns have grown immensely. I have to put the blame on increased human population - and there isn't anyway that we're going to fix that!

But Mikie, they didn't have the same fertilizer and chemicals back then as they do now...
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crabbygramps
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awww geeeez....another one




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« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2009, 04:34:45 PM »

Here is another idea..... we could PAVE THE BAY... NOT SAVE THE BAY.. BY PAVING THE BAY we could seal in all the nutrients and leave it alone for abit and then POOF.... everything would be great again....

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Undecided Grin laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

in reality it is a combination of everything.. a littel over harvesting a resource that has been on the decline from over development, pollution, fertlizier runoff, lack of oysters to filter the water which then reduces the amount of sunlight penetration, which leads to a lack of grasses, a overstocking of one of the main crab predators the rockfish by the millions....  gee should I continue.... it is easy to point fingers but we alll know it is a combination of alot of things and we all have a hand in it to some degree.....

so other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the Play...?

   That was last years consensus... Now we need o few thousand volunteers to quit crabbing the Chesapeake.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Wink


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Mr. Ray III
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« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2009, 05:38:45 PM »

I DO NOT volunteer.
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crabbygramps
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awww geeeez....another one




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« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2009, 06:42:10 PM »

I DO NOT volunteer.
  Me either....last years Md. totals for me.....1 trip.. 1 doz crabs.  I could cut that in half, but I " AIN'T "  quitin' !!! Wink
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« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2009, 06:58:21 PM »

I DO NOT volunteer.

You better not stop crabbing, you'll wind up like the LCC's that gave the crabs a break, with a DNR shank broke off flush in ya.
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« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2009, 08:48:08 AM »

 don't worry, as i said in another thread,it looks like md is going to offer a buyout program soon with fed. money.
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« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2009, 12:38:10 AM »


No disrespect here but both sides need to have regs that are fair to them.  Comms get the females cut and recs (i feel) didn't get there fair share.  I have no problems with recs what so ever.  I've helped out pleanty with trotlining but come on, 2 bushels a boat is MORE then enough IMHO.


Problem with that is that someone will always find fault with what ever regulations are put out there. Who is to say what is fair? The problem is that the politicians are trying to do what they think is fair to the majority of their constituents. After all there are more rec. crabbers in this state then there are comms. They are trying to please the most people. I think that they should stop thinking about what is fair and who is going to be ticked off and try doing something that works for a change. If they don't none of us are going to be able to go crabbing soon because that is the only way you can really be fair to everyone.
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I'd rather be crabbing!!  Wink

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