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Author Topic: His catch: 3,100 crab pots so far, and one baby stroller  (Read 21431 times)
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genecrabman
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2009, 12:38:12 PM »

How would that be considered stealing?




Not all ghost pots have had their lines cut off. Sometime a Pot will roll up and pull the bouy underwater.And it may pop up later in the year.. I don't have a  problem with a guy taking an unmarked pot, but if the owners name or number is on the bouy, the pot should be returned to the owner, if not........Thats stealing... JMO
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 12:48:18 PM »

I guess there are exceptions to every rule. I agree if they find a good pot with the owners name and phone # they should call and ask if he wants to come and pick it up.
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Tom Powers
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2009, 01:46:41 PM »

Let me see.  It is a closed season.  No pots can legally be in the water.  These guys are working under the direcetion and at the pay of the agency.  It is not so clear to me that under these circumstances that this is "stealing" if they keep the pots or the hardware.

Now if it were during open season that is another matter.  Then by all means it is theft.

Tom
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2009, 01:48:52 PM »

Tom, it would be hard for a CCA man to understand so I won't try to explain it.
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2009, 02:11:36 PM »

Let me see.  It is a closed season.  No pots can legally be in the water.  These guys are working under the direcetion and at the pay of the agency.  It is not so clear to me that under these circumstances that this is "stealing" if they keep the pots or the hardware.

Now if it were during open season that is another matter.  Then by all means it is theft.

Tom



I guess it all depends on the Morals of the Person.... But if I go to a persons, house and they have 4 or 5 of my traps or Crabpots in there back yard, I just might think he stole em....
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 02:17:45 PM by genecrabman » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2009, 02:51:30 PM »

In VA. pots are not marked. The float is. If the float is gone, then all the pots look the same. 
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genecrabman
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2009, 03:15:42 PM »

In VA. pots are not marked. The float is. If the float is gone, then all the pots look the same. 


All crabbers can tell what there pots look like, they are rigged different..

I guess if a car is parked in a NO PARKING Zone,  Some guys here would say it's "fair game" and take it.. Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 03:28:41 PM by genecrabman » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2009, 03:26:40 PM »


All crabbers can tell what there pots look like, they are rigged different..
I guess if a car is parked in a NO PARKING Zone,  Some guys here would say it "fair game" and take it.. Roll Eyes
I agree. The ghost pots I think of are the ones I find here in the sound.  They're usually just irons with a little bit of pot wire left on them..
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2009, 04:26:40 PM »

And I guess the "morals" of the original owner, since I am sure that if they were your pots he had located and retrieved you would want to compensate him for the time and money spent recovering them or if the State had paid him, repay the State. I don't think he is doing it out of the overflowing feelings of warmth for his fellow crabbers. He is salvaging lost & abandoned pots, salvage rights should apply. If I lost them and he found them, I would either compensate him or leave him be
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2009, 04:49:20 PM »

And I guess the "morals" of the original owner, since I am sure that if they were your pots he had located and retrieved you would want to compensate him for the time and money spent recovering them or if the State had paid him, repay the State. I don't think he is doing it out of the overflowing feelings of warmth for his fellow crabbers. He is salvaging lost & abandoned pots, salvage rights should apply. If I lost them and he found them, I would either compensate him or leave him be




I'm Talking about "lost" Pots with name or numbers on the bouy, anyone that wouldn't return them is a Theif in my opinion...I have found several boats with motors on them, 1 belonged to Dennis Anderson (Grave Digger)and 1 new Honda Jet Ski and returned everyone of them all to their owners..Maybe Morals does have something to do with it...

I'll be GUILTY of that, and [dang] proud of it...

Most Commercial Guys even Tow other people in for FREE TOO!
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2009, 08:26:12 PM »

Smart A$$ remark to follow.  . . .

OK so they don't retrieve them because they belong to someone else.  Call the man and he can issue the owner of the pots a summons for having them overboard out of season.  Or call the man and the owner at the same time and see who gets there first. . . I don't think so. 

End of Smart remark. . .

The pot buoys have a number on them that identify the owner.  For most violations the owner of the pots doesn't have to be present to get the ticket.  No/wrong/blocked cull rings gets the owner a ticket.  Pot in a channel gets the owner a ticket.  Pots in the water out of season gets the owner a ticket.  If someone else is actually working a rig then they would get a ticket for the same violations rather than the owner.  It is one of the problems with the concept of individuals working as agents.  If no one is there and there is a violation the ticket goes to the owner not the crabber that broke the law.


In most cases these pots have been in the water so long that, like the photo, except for the iron they are more or less trash.  I will ask Pete about the condition of the pots (and what percentage have buoys) that he has collected up next week when I see him.

From time to time pots are actually abandoned by the owner.  In years gone by I have seen rows of pots left in the water during the closed season.  These were in shallow water and included buoys so they were not lost.  Forgotten maybe but not lost.

One of the things that I have NOT heard, up until this thread, in this ghost pot issue when we talked about it in committee, etc. is returning the retrieved gear to the owner.  The crabbers are just happy to get the gear out of the water for the sake of the resource.  The former dredgers are happy to have work.

Oh and lastly my comment on stealing had to do with the law not the moral issues.  I can check but I am pretty confident that the program does not have provisions for returning lost (identifiable) gear.

Even still how much of an effort is it to go collect a few pots from the guy that pulled them out of the water after  they been in the water several months after they were lost? 

I am pretty sure that other states have ghost pot retrieval programs.  Does anybody know their policies regarding returning gear to the person that lost (or abandoned) it?

If folks really feel that a big effort should be made to return identifiable gear to the owner then send an email to Jack Travelstead at [email protected] and let him know.  After all this the first year of the program in Virginia.  Remember it will take

(a) Contacting agency staff with the buoy number (Virginia Assigns unique numbers to each Commercial waterman.  As far as I know the list of numbers is not public domain).
(b) Agency staff contacting the pot's owner and letting them know where to pick them up.
(c) Storing the recovered pots for at least a week or two so that the owner has time to come pick them up.
(d) Tracking that the owner has in fact been contacted in order to start that storage time clock.
(e) Manning the storage yard on days when folks bring pots in or pick them up.
(f) Verifying that he proper owner or his representative is the person who actually picks up the gear.
(g) Throwing the gear away after
   (1) it is determined that the owner can not be contacted.
   (2) the owner indicates that they have no desire to pick up this lost gear OR
   (3) sufficient time has elapsed between the time that the owner was notified and the gear has not been picked up.

How much labor and storage yard fees is that going to cost for what percentage of the pots that are retrieved that are both identifiable and worth salvaging? 

Oh and don't forget that this activity is probably go on from at least 10 different ports. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 08:29:54 PM by Tom Powers » Logged
genecrabman
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« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2009, 08:51:29 PM »

Let me see.  It is a closed season.  No pots can legally be in the water.  These guys are working under the direcetion and at the pay of the agency.  It is not so clear to me that under these circumstances that this is "stealing" if they keep the pots or the hardware.

Now if it were during open season that is another matter.  Then by all means it is theft.

Tom



ANSWER TO SMART AZZ REMARK..............I was saying taking someones "lost" Gear with a properly Marked buoy is something that Shouldn't be done,and I still thing it's stealing...if there's no Buoy, that a different story..I'd atleast call the guy to give his gear back.. I do that all the time..Is that a BAD THING?  Seems like you  have a Problem BASHING COMMERCIAL Guys..............No wonder they speak so highly of you Mr. Powers...


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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2009, 09:01:05 PM »

If folks really feel that a big effort should be made to return identifiable gear to the owner then send an email to Jack Travelstead at [email protected] and let him know.  After all this the first year of the program in Virginia.  Remember it will take

(a) Contacting agency staff with the buoy number (Virginia Assigns unique numbers to each Commercial waterman.  As far as I know the list of numbers is not public domain).
(b) Agency staff contacting the pot's owner and letting them know where to pick them up.
(c) Storing the recovered pots for at least a week or two so that the owner has time to come pick them up.
(d) Tracking that the owner has in fact been contacted in order to start that storage time clock.
(e) Manning the storage yard on days when folks bring pots in or pick them up.
(f) Verifying that he proper owner or his representative is the person who actually picks up the gear.
(g) Throwing the gear away after
   (1) it is determined that the owner can not be contacted.
   (2) the owner indicates that they have no desire to pick up this lost gear OR
   (3) sufficient time has elapsed between the time that the owner was notified and the gear has not been picked up.











Thats how the STATE WORKS.....................Heres how the Commercial Crabbers can save States Money, 

1.   turn your VHF to POWER ON
2..  Tune to your local channel
3.    Ask if any body knows Joe BlueCRABBER   (the pot owner's name)
4.   The Joe BlueCrabber answers your call..
5.   You respond, Joe  I HAVE 1 of your pots, I'll set it off on my dock...
6.  Joe Answers, Thanks, I'll come around and pick it up this evening...



Thats how Commercial Crabbers work.............Please feel free to take any notes  Mr. Powers..


Total cost of a total pot recovery is $0.00  Tax Dollars, and the crabber got a $40.00 pot back...


I guess that makes too much sense..
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 09:07:34 PM by genecrabman » Logged
Tom Powers
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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2009, 09:10:14 PM »

Pots that you know the owner of by all means contact them.  That is the right thing to do.  Taking it home is the wrong thing to do.  Besides that it can get you shot. . . or arrested for theft. 

I have run across gear that I know was abandoned and have never considered picking it up unless it did not have a buoy attached.  Even still I would most likely take it to the nearest marsh and leave it there with the top open, just in case it found it's way back into the water.

What folks seem to be missing is that

(1) These guys don't really know who owns the gear that they find when it does have a buoy because they are most probably dragging the gear up in areas where they normally don't set crab pots.

(2) As far as I know the program does not have provisions for returning the gear.

(3) Also, like I said in Virginia they use an ID number to identify the pot buoy.  The cross reference from numbers to name (BY LAW) is not public domain.  Thus it is impossible for the person who retrieves the gear to actually identify the owner.

Other states have other tagging schemes.  I wish that Virginia had a program where the owner's name and phone number was on the buoy. . . but it does not.

My smart remark was directed at folks that implying that the guys in this program are thieves  if they do not return gear that has marked buoys even though they have no way of knowing who the gear belongs to.

Edit. . . As far as getting on the radio. 

The crab pot season is closed when they are doing this work. 

Most crabbers that I know that use skiffs don't keep their radio's on (if they have one)

You would have to say the guy with red buoys number 1234.  I found one of your pots are you out there.  Other crabbers may know who uses red buoys in that river but probably not their number.

One last edit.

I am just talking about the ghost pot retrieval program.  Not what should or should not happen during the regular crab pot season.

Dec. Jan Feb. Crab pot season is closed.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 09:18:38 PM by Tom Powers » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2009, 10:44:21 PM »

Closed season in Fla everything goes to the dump,most of the commercial gear is marked and the owner gets a $10 a pot retrieval fee assessed,the first 5 are free as it is part of the license fee,we set up to recover trap debrie any time of the year and it goes to the dump to BUT if it's a intact pot thats just missing a bouy during open season nobody can touch it except the owner,I get pots cut off by rec fishermen in shallow water all the time and it may be a month or 2 before I can catch the tide right or the water clears up so I can find it.
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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2009, 08:35:19 AM »

"I have run across gear that I know was abandoned and have never considered picking it up unless it did not have a buoy attached.  Even still I would most likely take it to the nearest marsh and leave it there with the top open, just in case it found it's way back into the water."

If there is ever a bounty on abandon pots, I am gonna be rich!  The marshs on the shore have tons of them laying around.   Grin
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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2009, 04:48:57 PM »

WHERE IS THIS GOING ON BECAUSE I COULD PROBLY GET SOME FREINDS TO START DOING THIS THEY WOULD LIKE THE MONEY. Cool
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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2009, 04:53:08 PM »

IMO every waterman who pots crabs should have to put in one day a year FREE to help clean up,we have very few pots in the edge of the marsh around here because I have picked them all up over the years along with the ones in shallow water I can find.
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2009, 06:44:00 PM »

IMO every waterman who pots crabs should have to put in one day a year FREE to help clean up,we have very few pots in the edge of the marsh around here because I have picked them all up over the years along with the ones in shallow water I can find.
I pick them clean of useable stuff.  Like culling rings, floats, hooks and irons.  The 99% are so far gone there isn't enough to take to the dump. Mostly wire peeler pots here, not vinyl coated HC pots.
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« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2009, 02:19:32 PM »

Tom, not according to Gina Hunt of MD DNR.  There was a group that wanted to retrieve lost pots.  She said no go do to legal issues which fell under maritime law.
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