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Author Topic: Help! Non-commercial Crab pot license, and "agents" pulling pots.  (Read 12206 times)
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Crabbergus
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« on: May 28, 2009, 12:35:03 PM »

Im confused.


 On the NJ f &W site, http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/non-comm_crabpot_regs.pdf it says:

"No individual shall take or attempt to take crabs by means of crab pots or trot lines without having in his or her possession a valid license issued by the Division. You may tend only those pots licensed to you."

But in the marine digest, http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2009/digmar09.pdf Page 14, Rule 10 under the blue crab section, it says:

"Only the owner, his agent, or a law enforcement officer may raise or remove the contents of a legally set fishing device."

Does this mean that if given permission from another licensee, you can be their agent and tend their pots? Or is the first rule correct and you can only pull your own. Anyone have experience with this. The reason I ask is that my wife and I both have licenses, but she works funny hours and gets called in alot. If she were to drop 2 pots and couldnt make it back to tend to them within the 72 hour time limit, could I LEGALLY do this for her, with her permission.

And before everyone gets jumpy. No, I do not plan on getting all my relatives licenses so i can tend 2000 pots. This is strictly a legit question for just my wifes 2 pots.



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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 01:05:13 PM »

All states are different but in Fla "agent" means someone who works for you and is on a boat you licensed and doesn't apply to recreational pots.
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 01:32:10 PM »

I called the Wildlife agent in Lake Charles La. and he told me that I could give written permission to anyone to act as my agent  on my recreational license ( 10 pot limit ) I also asked him if I were to purchase a license for my wife that she could give me permission to run them .. effectively giving me access to 20 pots but with a limit of 12 dozen per person .
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Crabbergus
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 01:36:25 PM »

Thanks for the reply, but Im asking about recreational rules in NJ. No offence. Im not trying to be insulting at all, but the game wardens will laugh their you know whats off, if I start mentioning FL or LA regs.

The NJ regs don't specificaly say commercial.  In fact, the "agent" part I mention is under the recreational blue crab regulations.

Anyone have any hard knowledge of the NJ regs.
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 01:39:38 PM »

no offense taken... just thought some of the lurkers around might wanna know regs from other areas.... sorry I couldnt be more help for you  yankees !!!!
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 01:53:17 PM »

Recreational crabbers do not have "agents."

In other words, you can't register your dog, your wife and your sister for two traps a piece, then go and harvest them yourself, even with a permission slip from each of them.
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2009, 02:20:17 PM »

All states are different but in Fla "agent" means someone who works for you and is on a boat you licensed and doesn't apply to recreational pots.
Same here in VA..   If you are a Rec here you can not fish your wifes pots unless she is in the boat with you.
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2009, 04:22:04 PM »

I would hope common sense played out if in that particular scenario a warden stopped you.  Especially if you have the same last name as your wife.  "Warning, don't make a habit of it, be on your way."  Now if you got caught doing it more than once and a warden never saw your wife ever tend a trap before, well then you may have some explaining to do and your license possibly revoked for the year. 

All this is if you by chance have the same problem with the same warden in the same body of water.  Very unlikely I would think.   Wink
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2009, 05:35:32 PM »

Im confused.


 On the NJ f &W site, http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/non-comm_crabpot_regs.pdf it says:

"No individual shall take or attempt to take crabs by means of crab pots or trot lines without having in his or her possession a valid license issued by the Division. You may tend only those pots licensed to you."

But in the marine digest, http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2009/digmar09.pdf Page 14, Rule 10 under the blue crab section, it says:

  CG..
 If you're talking about recreational pot ( trotline license ) it's non commericial and you can pull your wife's pots and she can pull yours. Make sure that they are properly marked !!
If in doubt, remember the old " N.J." crab trap ditty..
"The capt'n and mate were pullin' traps
Right after the sun had rizzen
 He had a grasp on hers and she a grip on hizzen"...
 Pots that is.... laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh :laugha 





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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2009, 05:56:36 AM »

I would hope common sense played out if in that particular scenario a warden stopped you.  Especially if you have the same last name as your wife.  "Warning, don't make a habit of it, be on your way."  Now if you got caught doing it more than once and a warden never saw your wife ever tend a trap before, well then you may have some explaining to do and your license possibly revoked for the year. 

All this is if you by chance have the same problem with the same warden in the same body of water.  Very unlikely I would think.   Wink

Meh...

If your wife isn't with you and he sees you harvest more than two pots, you should get a citation.   
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2009, 09:18:31 AM »

I am going to call the game warden and get clarification. I will let everyone know.

As I said before, I agree that this should not be used as a loophole to tend an unlimited amount of pots. That is the last thing the crab community needs, and I am very opposed.

I'm just asking if I can legally tend my wife's pots only if neccessary because of a surprise work obligation, not a permanent situation. To be honest I would be willing to put all the crabs back, I just want the pots out of the water so they arent ghost fishing for a week.

I understand that there is a slim chance Ill get caught, and a reasonable warden might understand, but its not worth the fine. I only want to do this if it is 100% legal.
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2009, 10:00:25 AM »

It's not.    It is two per person.
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Crabbergus
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 10:12:43 AM »

Ok, here is the official answer from marine code enforcement. You CAN NOT tend anyone elses pots for any reason. No special permissions will be given.

When asked about the "agent" wording, they said that it pertained to commercial crabbing. I did ask why this was writen under recreational crabing regulations, and that a reasonable person could take it to mean it includes non-commercial pots. Their answer was "I dont know"  Roll Eyes, which in my opinion should never be the answer given about a law from a person that is supposed to enforce that law.

Regardles if code enforcement is interpreting the law correctly, they are the ones writing the tickets and thats what they think it means, so dont do it.

I did suggest that they change the wording to clear up any confusion. They said they would look into it, but we all know how far thats going to go.  Roll Eyes

Thanks to all those who replied to this post.
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2009, 10:52:03 AM »

Ronster,

I would like to ask if you actually read my posts before you answered any of them?

The reason I say this is because I made it very clear I am not asking to register my dog, imaginary friends, or the easter bunny. It was also clear that I am well aware of the two pot rule, hence my questions about pulling up two ADDITONAL pots that dont belong to me.

MY post was asking the community of their interpretation of the law, and any actual experiences with that law, as it pertained to ONE actual immediate relative, in an isolated one time situation. Nowhere did I mention a criminal plot to rape the crab population.

And no, I shouldnt get a citation for pulling up more than two pots. Everyone should be given the opportunity to contact the game warden, explain the situation, and be legaly allowed to pull up two additional pots, provided that they release all crabs caught. This way the 2 unattended pots dont kill 2-3 dozen crabs for no reason.






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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2009, 01:08:11 PM »

Don't worry Gus, I wouldn't cite you if I caught you.  Believe me, there is a common sense role to be played by all involved parties.  Any law official knows when to or when not to write a ticket.  The game wardens are not like the NY Parking Authority.  They are allowed to issue warnings and use discretion when applicable.  If they were told they had to write tickets, then that would be a quota and it is is illegal in this state.  Just don't piss any of them off.   Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2009, 01:49:00 PM »

Don't worry Gus, I wouldn't cite you if I caught you.  Believe me, there is a common sense role to be played by all involved parties.  Any law official knows when to or when not to write a ticket.  The game wardens are not like the NY Parking Authority.  They are allowed to issue warnings and use discretion when applicable.  If they were told they had to write tickets, then that would be a quota and it is is illegal in this state.  Just don't piss any of them off.   Grin Grin Grin
Exactly...  BTW, I asked my buddy if he would ticket you if you were taking up your wifes pots and dumping the crabs.  He said he would not, as long as there were no crabs in baskets aboard.  He said, "That was a dumb question.  The Judge would through my a$$ out of the court house."  laugh
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2009, 04:19:09 PM »

I agree 100%. Im sure any level headed individual would understand.

If the situation arrises, I will call marine code enforcement and ask them what they want me to do. Im sure they wont want those pots out there a week or more ghost fishing. To be honest, if I left the pots out there a week, no one would notice. I just dont want to kill crabs needlesly, especially since so many people are trying to save the blue crab.

We are lucky here in nj that the state hasnt put restrictions on crabers for dwindling numbers, but we all know its a mater of time. We need to get the state to raise the minimum size to 5", and ban the taking of females, BEFORE it becomes a problem. But thats a whole other topic.

In fact if I can get that changed, maybe as were rewriting the rulebooks we could throw in a husband/wife clause. Tell people that its for promoting marriage amongst young people. Im sure I could get the pope to sponsor it.  Grin laugh Grin laugh Grin laugh
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2009, 05:11:27 PM »

I agree 100%. Im sure any level headed individual would understand.

If the situation arrises, I will call marine code enforcement and ask them what they want me to do. Im sure they wont want those pots out there a week or more ghost fishing. To be honest, if I left the pots out there a week, no one would notice. I just dont want to kill crabs needlesly, especially since so many people are trying to save the blue crab.

We are lucky here in nj that the state hasnt put restrictions on crabers for dwindling numbers, but we all know its a mater of time. We need to get the state to raise the minimum size to 5", and ban the taking of females, BEFORE it becomes a problem. But thats a whole other topic.

In fact if I can get that changed, maybe as were rewriting the rulebooks we could throw in a husband/wife clause. Tell people that its for promoting marriage amongst young people. Im sure I could get the pope to sponsor it.  Grin laugh Grin laugh Grin laugh
That wouldn't hurt much.  Maybe a big'em would kill and eat a littl'en but crabs are tough critters.  Most would just find their way out of the pot while searching for food.  During big storms pots can go a week or so without getting fished.  Ghost pot are ones that are totally lost and never to be found.  There is allot of debate about how harmfull they are. 
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« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2009, 05:59:58 PM »

Ronster,

I would like to ask if you actually read my posts before you answered any of them?

In this case, I didn't have to.   I volunteer for NJ Fish and Wildlife and know the rules.   ;-)

Quote
MY post was asking the community of their interpretation of the law, and any actual experiences with that law, as it pertained to ONE actual immediate relative, in an isolated one time situation. Nowhere did I mention a criminal plot to rape the crab population.

Nor did I accuse you of such.    I was merely giving you the answer to your question.     Not an interpretation, but the actual answer.  

Quote
And no, I shouldnt get a citation for pulling up more than two pots.

It's against the law to tend more than your allotment of pots.    There is no gray area there.     If you have a ghost pot situation going on, call the local game warden's office and ask for some direction.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 06:03:39 PM by Ronster » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2009, 07:52:29 PM »

I have no idea how you can answer a post without reading it, regardless of what your qualifications are. Its ridiculous to even suggest that it is possible.

Its not hard to imagine you are a volunteer with the wildlife service. This morning they told me "I dont know" when asking them to explain their rules, and now you are telling me you dont have to know the question to give me an answer. Roll Eyes Huh

And no you did not have the correct answer because you were answering some question you made up in your head, without actually reading the post.

My question was are there special circumstances to the rules, for situations out of the ordinary. Your answer was geared toward fish and game thieves. There is a gray area to any situation, where all circumstances have not yet been conceived.

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