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Seaweed
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2005, 11:45:28 PM »

Exactly Procrabber.  Well said, and excellent example.  Some people will never get it, and thats just the way it is.
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pip
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2005, 11:59:12 PM »

When I'm on the water I do everything in my power to keep a safe distance (a really safe distance) from everyone and everything. I do coexist and want to coexist with everyone I see on the water. The problem is most comm. crabbers simply tolerate rec. crabbers and If they had their way they would have the bay, creeks and tribs all to themselves, and probably believe they have a birthright to it. I doubt there are many comm. crabbers that have ever felt intimidated by a small boat with 2 parents and 2 children handlining. I will bet there are lots of rec crabbers that have been intimidated by commercial rig with 3 big guys yelling at them to get out of the way. In my experience and my experience only, it has always been the commercial who didnt coexist and not the other way around. Most commercial fisherman I have ever met despised chicken neckers and weekenders and longed for the days their fathers told them about whe they rulled the bay. I can't say I blame them for feeling like things have changed for the worse for them, but things change in life and thats just how it is, it's sad but true. I have been crabbing the same waters for 25 years, I have always obeyed limits, I have always respected others, I have always done my best to respect the bay and all the animals in it. Do I make a living off the bay.... No. Why? Because it's next to impossible to get a license because they are handed down from one generation to the next. 25 years is not a lifetime, but its not a short time either. I don't think it's too much to ask to get a little respect on this side of the tracks.

Sorry if this was a rant Tongue .
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FredsLoft
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2005, 06:17:35 AM »

Going back to one early post. I also know a guy who had trailer tires slashed at goodhands landing.
I know 2 people who have been put in danger by both com, and recs in larger boats trying to swamp them. Both now are carring what they say is legal shotguns. I am sad that things have come to this for them. I can not say they were not in the wrong when things like this happened, what I can say is that no one came to them to talk sense. They said one rec alone was running traps from in front of the condos towards the narrows channel, in a larger boat swinging all over the river and running fast. The guy told me he came within feet of them full boar almost swamping them. I know this guy well and he said the next time things will be different. As for me I believe him Smiley
Thursday I was with my brother who had a stroke a few years back, he is no longer on the top of his game but we have spent our life together in a boat mostly waterfowl hunting. We laided our traps at 520 just like the law says. I  stayed more then legal distance from any com. You got it right before we could check them here comes a com checking his line right through my traps. I was without a doubt in his way and I knew it. I did not know he was there and I believe he knew it. As he came up to us I yelled I would move what he needs me to move. He stated there were 2 traps that he will tangle. As he went out his line I followed him to see what was what. When he went through our line I moved the traps making him a nice path. On the return he gave me a thumbs up and all was fine.
I hope things get cleared up so all of us can enjoy the sport, but there is nothing on or off the water which will make those making a living get along with those of us who do this for fun. Just ain't gona happen until one of us is forced to leave.
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procrabber
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2005, 08:33:18 AM »

When I'm on the water I do everything in my power to keep a safe distance (a really safe distance) from everyone and everything. I do coexist and want to coexist with everyone I see on the water. The problem is most comm. crabbers simply tolerate rec. crabbers and If they had their way they would have the bay, creeks and tribs all to themselves, and probably believe they have a birthright to it. I doubt there are many comm. crabbers that have ever felt intimidated by a small boat with 2 parents and 2 children handlining. I will bet there are lots of rec crabbers that have been intimidated by commercial rig with 3 big guys yelling at them to get out of the way. In my experience and my experience only, it has always been the commercial who didnt coexist and not the other way around. Most commercial fisherman I have ever met despised chicken neckers and weekenders and longed for the days their fathers told them about whe they rulled the bay. I can't say I blame them for feeling like things have changed for the worse for them, but things change in life and thats just how it is, it's sad but true. I have been crabbing the same waters for 25 years, I have always obeyed limits, I have always respected others, I have always done my best to respect the bay and all the animals in it. Do I make a living off the bay.... No. Why? Because it's next to impossible to get a license because they are handed down from one generation to the next. 25 years is not a lifetime, but its not a short time either. I don't think it's too much to ask to get a little respect on this side of the tracks.

Sorry if this was a rant Tongue .

pip,  im just wondering where you are crabbing? 1-  sounds like there are a lot of a--es there. 2-  if you can, go to a place where fredsloft goes. they sound a little nicer there.  were the comm crabbers trotlining?  if so, EVERYONE comm trotlines alone.  it is possible these guys were not comm, but recs with a boat that looks comm.  espcecially if they are using pullup traps, or trotlining with more than one person. if they are setting pots, then that means you are in the mainstem of the bay.  and crabbing is never as good there.

ive leaned one thin from crabbing, you must always be patient, or you will never enjoy yourself and you will die young from all of the stress
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pip
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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2005, 09:02:10 AM »

Procrabber,

I crab the coastal bays, not because its the best place to crab, but because it is where I live. These guys were pulling traps (Commercial pots) and are without a doubt commercial crabbers from down the Chincoteague bay. I apologize if I come across stressed in these posts, I actually am one of the most layed back people around, it's this subject, and jet skis, that gets my hackles up because of the abuses I have seen over the years. I know Commercial crabbers have their issues with rec crabbers, but I can only speak from my experience, and generally it is the other way around. As far as me having to use pull traps , thats all I can use and be within the law, If I could use pots I would. I have seen rec crabbers camping on Asssateague setting out pots and that gets me going.....HMMM maybe I'm not as layed back as I think Grin Grin.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 09:04:19 AM by pip » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2005, 09:15:07 AM »

In going with Fredsloft's story, last weekend a commerical guy (we were well away of our 100 ft) took 3 of our traps all together, tangled them up and threw them in the water. You call that Courtesty? My family and I obey and are courteous to everyone out there and respect who is crabbbing where and we watch before we place our traps out so that we do not interfere with anyone, that means comm or rec. crabbers.
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SlickCam
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2005, 09:30:48 AM »

Let me start by telling you that I hold a commercial license, but do not rely on it to make my living.  I'm a school teacher who comes from a family of commercial watermen.  My grandfather's license was passed on to me.  Someday I hope to be able to use it to its full potential, maybe when I retire.  Right now it is just my free pass to crab wednesdays.  SO for all intensive purposes, I'm a recreational crabber, but I have to side with my commercial family roots on this one.  The thing most "chicken neckers" don't understand is that the laws were set up by the state of MD, not the watermen.  Sure they obey them, so they don't go to jail, but they've got their own set of laws that the weekend warriors couldn't possibly understand.  I'm not saying its right to endanger someone else's life (unless you see them pulling up your pots (for you foreigners, a pot is 2 and 1/2 feet square and you don't have to check it every 20 minutes) ... thats a joke folks).  Imagine how I'd feel if I had 20 other "part time" teachers in my classroom trying to teach MY kids.  Problem right?  So please have some respect, don't just think that abiding by the law makes you a courteous crabber.
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pip
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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2005, 09:47:11 AM »

Hmm..... so we have to abide by laws and rules of conduct that we could never understand less our familly heritage is that of a waterman? I guess we can't understand them and the familly line/familly heritage argument that is always used by commercial waterman, trumps every valid complaint that a rec crabber could have and therefore we should stay off the water altogether and leave it to it's rightful heirs. That doesnt sound fair, resonable or realistic so it solves none ofthe issues that we all face on the water.
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Dave Jr.
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2005, 09:47:32 AM »

The Bay doesn't belong to anyone.  The Bay belongs to everyone.  You can go with either of those but you can't be a jerk when you are out there.  I get a little angry sometimes at the crowds of people with non Maryland license plates but when I'm on the water I always say good morning to everyone and try to chat with them.  If you pay for your license and  your County ramp sticker you have every right to be there.  I forget that sometimes and I shouldn't.  I was crabbing Saturday and my line of traps ran about 200' from a commercial guy who was running a long, long line.  I asked him if my traps were ok when he turned around for his run and said good morning and there are plenty of crabs out here today and smiled.  I know those guys work hard but we all work hard.  Be curtious to everyone and just know that there are some grumpy old farts out there that don't like you  Grin
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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2005, 10:07:53 AM »

Pip, thanks for making my point!
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« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2005, 10:13:05 AM »

It's not just a Comm. vs. Rec.  It is the type of person.  Some comms will treat other comms. the same way they treat Recs.  They think they own a particular body of water just because they were crabbing it all week.  Bull Sheets I say!  Get your a$$ out of bed early enough.  If a spot that I've been working happens to be taken that day I move on.  Sometimes I've found very productive waters this way.  The funny thing is once I find them I've had other comms. see me working it and have later claimed it as theirs. laugh
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This is how it's going to go.  After I kick your A$$ i'm going to run you through the wood chipper and put you in containers in the freezer to use in my crab pots!  The really sad part?  You let an old man kick your A$$!!!
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« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2005, 10:26:36 AM »

Well said.  Many people don't realize that the original watermen, especially down the shore, were basically pirates.  That "anything goes", free plunder attitude dies hard
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ChrisS
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« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2005, 10:28:42 AM »

When you cram 500 crabbers into a little area such as the Wye, or Thompson creek...your gonna have conflicts. Way too many people in such little spots. Poor crabs!!! Grin
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in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty
Seaweed
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« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2005, 10:37:33 AM »

Yeah, Pip, maybe you should stay off the water, since you JUST DON'T GET IT!
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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2005, 10:48:46 AM »

The thing most "chicken neckers" don't understand is that the laws were set up by the state of MD, not the watermen.
 

The laws may not be set up by the watermen, but they (the MD Watermen's Assoc.) have one or more lobbyists that have a big influence on the people who do make the laws.

  
Imagine how I'd feel if I had 20 other "part time" teachers in my classroom trying to teach MY kids.  Problem right?  So please have some respect, don't just think that abiding by the law makes you a courteous crabber.

Are you trying to say that the crabs belong to the Commercial crabber's?  I see THAT as a problem.

I had written a longer response, but my session timed out and it went away, so I'll shorten this one.

Some (not all) of the CC's I know or talk to think the problems with the crab catches in the Magothy this year are caused by; recreational crabbers taking more than their 'share' (most popular theory), rockfish, skates and rays, water quality, etc.  None of them think the problem is the hundreds, if not thousands, of pots decorating the mouth of the river and the shoreline for miles to the north and south.  After all, the laws state that they can have that many, so it's legal.

Also, the one's who seem to have the problem with the RC's are the one's who run pots.  The trotliners seem to be okay sharing the water with the RC's.  Maybe they are more laid back.  I'm talking about the Magothy area.

As a final note, I think the reason most RC's intrude on a CC's space is because they don't know the rules or don't realize the CC's equipment is in the area (those long trotlines can be difficult to detect).  The reason most CC's intrude on RC's is because they know the rules and think the RC is taking 'their' resource. 

Again, let me say that the majority of CC's and RC's can coexist with no problems and have been doing so for years, but there are knuckleheads on both sides.  I do however, think the knuckleheads on the CC side do so thinking that family history, a CCL, and or the God-given laws of the state of MD, give them additional inalienable 'rights'.

C-mofo
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2005, 11:03:34 AM »

Something to think about also....some of those older work boats take a frickin acre to turn, sometimes you end up 30 feet past the line end, before you even have time to start turning.....a 40 footer would consume a 100 ft....most don't have time to do a three point turn.....thats because time is limited too (tide, weather, 3:00 pm.....it makes a big difference if your at the end of his line or on his port..... things are not always fine at 150 foot....also it takes allot of room for a comm guy to move his line to deeper water/shoal, if he is not catching.....they are not using 20 traps that you can randomly move to depth if needed.....and some of those comm guys stay on certain area's day after day for months....it would be like someone stealing your favorite chair everyweekend......oh yea, and also your icecream...lol
Before long i can see it coming down to recs and comm having designated area's, and thats a shame.....i like to see everyone have fun !
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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2005, 11:12:03 AM »

It's not just a Comm. vs. Rec.  It is the type of person.  Some comms will treat other comms. the same way they treat Recs.  They think they own a particular body of water just because they were crabbing it all week.  Bull Sheets I say!  Get your a$$ out of bed early enough.  If a spot that I've been working happens to be taken that day I move on.  Sometimes I've found very productive waters this way.  The funny thing is once I find them I've had other comms. see me working it and have later claimed it as theirs. laugh

I have to agree with Brian on this one.

I'm sure that those cranky commercial crabbers are just as cranky toward their fellow commercial crabbers if they are seen as invading ones territory. So, I don't think it's commercial against recreational -- I think it's a territorial thing.
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« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2005, 11:12:54 AM »

Well, I've been crabbing a certain area since the first of June and been catching crabs, not all the time, but doing o.k. Now, I guess since word got out, I have to compete for the ledge that I like and have been doing well at for over a month now. No one was out when the reports were dismal, and I sure as heck wasn't gonna post it on here, I never really understand that....crabber's suicide. Anyway, I do take it a bit personal, but I never take it out on anyone...I just get up earlier. I'm commercial......and I bet that before the masses arived at the wye and Eastern Bay, those commercial crabbers were out everyday testing the waters and finding the crabs when the recs. were not. Again, to small of a place to handle the load of crabbers. Everyone should be respectful to everyone, that's not a crabber thing but a human thing.
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in·teg·ri·ty   
–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty
redneckshoreboy
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« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2005, 11:25:07 AM »

ChrisS,
I remember when the comm guys would lay side by side.....their was no such thing as (crabber's suicide) but then again their wasn't half the competition....I also remember splitting catches to help out someone who had a bad day....where did those days go ? Their is far more good hearted comm crabbers than their is bad.....and most of the bad ones were drove to the bad by some city slicker who was frustrated that his vacation was not going perfectly as planned.....
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« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2005, 11:27:58 AM »

I agree with you ChrisS.  You have to be very careful what you post here, or you'll be greeted by rowboats full of folks with 30 traps each in your spot.  But the fact that most folks on here think that the only place to catch a bunch of big crabs is on the Wye, is fine with me.  They can tie themselves in a big knot, and I'll be steady dippin in "my" spot.

I get up earlier too, and that used to work fine.  But I swear some guys camp out overnight to get there first... a few visits from the DNR shoudl have already cleared that up, but now yet.
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