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Author Topic: Alaskan Snow Crab Rising  (Read 3979 times)
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GA
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« on: April 12, 2012, 10:01:12 PM »

(6min)

I have not heard of a better system for managing a resource that cannot be privatized in relation to the property the resource is located on than catch shares. If the fishery is improving, your quota is worth more. The only thing the catch share holders (ITQ, IFQ) can dispute is the methods used to determine the harvest quota which is independently reviewed and documented. Unless they can do so scientifically they have nothing to stand on.

As to why the Alaskan King Crab fishery is in decline, I suspect it would not be impossible to fudge accounting records that could lead to over harvesting among other things like illegal commercial fishing and of course natural causes.

Regardless the Alaskan Snow Crab fishery is increasing,

King crab quota cut in half; council may collect more crew info (Alaska Journal of Commerce, October 2011)
Red king quota declining, snow crab rising (Anchorage Daily News, October 8, 2011)
Quote
The good news: Bering Sea crabbers also were shocked at the catch increase for Alaska's largest crab fishery: snow crab. The harvest for the 2011-12 season was boosted by 64 percent to nearly 90 million pounds.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 10:03:12 PM by GA » Logged

Mr. Breeze
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 03:21:25 AM »

(6min)

I have not heard of a better system for managing a resource that cannot be privatized in relation to the property the resource is located on than catch shares. If the fishery is improving, your quota is worth more. The only thing the catch share holders (ITQ, IFQ) can dispute is the methods used to determine the harvest quota which is independently reviewed and documented. Unless they can do so scientifically they have nothing to stand on.

As to why the Alaskan King Crab fishery is in decline, I suspect it would not be impossible to fudge accounting records that could lead to over harvesting among other things like illegal commercial fishing and of course natural causes.

Regardless the Alaskan Snow Crab fishery is increasing,

King crab quota cut in half; council may collect more crew info (Alaska Journal of Commerce, October 2011)
Red king quota declining, snow crab rising (Anchorage Daily News, October 8, 2011)

Catch shares won't work for the blue crab fishery in MD.  Catch shares have been devastating to the ground fish fishermen in the northeast, and the scallop fishermen, and in general devastating to fishermen everywhere they have been instituted.
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mdjohn
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 08:48:41 AM »

Boats from other countries are fishing the same waters and are not playing by "Our catch share" rules

just like the EPA put a bunch of rules on steelmaking and now the steel is made in China and we import it

Right now, close to 70% of all king crab consumed in the U.S. is imported, mostly from Russia. I suppose that will go up to 90%.

Demand won't change -- Just the country that supplies that demand.

Seems like it would benefit the Chinese to support $$$$ politicians that want to pass environmetal and feel good laws  

People don't think the next step, they support supposedly environmental/feel good laws then wonder why they are out of a job and the US has to lend money from China.

 Undecided
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 08:53:35 AM by mdjohn » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 09:08:33 AM »



Regardless the Alaskan Snow Crab fishery is increasing,

not according to this chart put out by Seafood Market Bulletin - winter 2012

http://www.alaskaseafood.org/fishingprocessing/seafoodweb_win12/crab2012.html

interesting data -

most of the snow crab we eat comes from Canada

most of the  king crab we eat comes from Russia

and Japan another crab eating country buys very little to none from the USA

very interesting but people are more interested in puppy dogs , kittens and chasing a bright light

 laugh laugh

if ya want to save the oceans - you can't unless you reduce the number of consumers / polluters = people

Too much increasing demand for a basically static supply

Since 1980 World Population Increased 50% --- and most of that came from the poorest and least able to care for themselves, but everybody eats

 Wink
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 09:37:54 AM by mdjohn » Logged
GA
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 09:00:04 PM »

Catch shares won't work for the blue crab fishery in MD.  Catch shares have been devastating to the ground fish fishermen in the northeast, and the scallop fishermen, and in general devastating to fishermen everywhere they have been instituted.
Why would they not work? How would the fishery be negatively impacted?
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GA
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 09:29:55 PM »

Boats from other countries are fishing the same waters and are not playing by "Our catch share" rules

just like the EPA put a bunch of rules on steelmaking and now the steel is made in China and we import it

Right now, close to 70% of all king crab consumed in the U.S. is imported, mostly from Russia. I suppose that will go up to 90%.

Demand won't change -- Just the country that supplies that demand.

Seems like it would benefit the Chinese to support $$$$ politicians that want to pass environmetal and feel good laws  

People don't think the next step, they support supposedly environmental/feel good laws then wonder why they are out of a job and the US has to lend money from China.

 Undecided
Catch shares have nothing to do with any EPA environmental regulations on steel making. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Catch shares are dealing with a resource issue that cannot be enforced via the market mechanism of private property rights. EPA pollution regulations is attempting to deal with market externalities, however, these can be dealt with without EPA enforcement by market mechanisms. Why steel is being imported from China has to do with much more than just the EPA, things such as U.S labor laws (minimum wage, work hours), unions and high tax rates. These need to be repealed.

You are correct that with a growing planetary population, demand is unlikely to decrease and this will be reflected in the market price of crab and imports from other countries. However if those countries are not maintaining their fisheries, then their ability to export will decrease as their fisheries decline. The ability for Russia to significantly deplete the Alaskan crab fisheries is effectively impossible without them fishing in U.S. waters. Clearly they can have an negative effect where the fisheries bleed into international waters. This however could be taken care of with joint U.S. and Russian catch share treaties. Your argument is effectively, they are doing it so that makes it acceptable or logical for us to do it. I do not see how racing to be the first to deplete a fishery is a logical argument. This has nothing to do with emotional feel good laws but rather one that unfortunately is necessary because private property rights cannot be applied (to the ocean).

We have to borrow money from China because our government is too big and we spend too much.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 01:14:43 AM by GA » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 09:31:30 PM »

Why would they not work? How would the fishery be negatively impacted?



Oh look, there's a bright light

 laugh

You are correct that with a growing planetary population demand unlikely to decrease --- Do the math 50% increase

70% of our crabs come from Russia - make them use catch shares

 laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 09:37:51 PM by mdjohn » Logged
GA
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 09:40:46 PM »

if ya want to save the oceans - you can't unless you reduce the number of consumers / polluters = people

Too much increasing demand for a basically static supply

Since 1980 World Population Increased 50% --- and most of that came from the poorest and least able to care for themselves, but everybody eats
It has nothing to do with "saving the oceans" but maintaining fisheries where private property rights cannot be applied. Increasing demand for a static supply will be reflected by an increase in the price. The profit motive drives innovation, as the price increases so does alternative resource ideas, such as King Crab farming and enhancement,

Growing crops of king crab?

As far as feeding the world, GE crops are already doing this,

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mdjohn
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 09:53:42 PM »

It has nothing to do with "saving the oceans" but maintaining fisheries where private property rights cannot be applied. Increasing demand for a static supply will be reflected by an increase in the price.

you better get huffin because the world population will double in the next 50 years

 laugh laugh laugh laugh

BTW - the man with the gun will shot you in the head and take your food to eat.
money has no real value of and by itself - it's pieces of paper with pictures of dead guys on it

 laugh laugh laugh

well, I gotta go to a PETA meeting
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 10:04:35 PM by mdjohn » Logged
GA
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 10:09:40 PM »

Quote from: mdjohn
70% of our crabs come from Russia - make them use catch shares
So? This is what international trade is for. Are you arguing they are depleting our fisheries? Please provide scientific evidence of this.

There can be many reasons for this current trend,

1. Russia has larger crab fisheries than we do.
2. Russia is carelessly depleting their fisheries, which means this trend would decline in the future.
3. We are willing to pay more for Russian crab than other countries.

you better get huffin because the world population will double in the next 50 years

BTW - the man with the gun will shot you in the head and take your food to eat.
money has no real value of and by itself
It can only double if the food supply increases with it. I have seen no evidence of the U.S. food supply decreasing. I am a man with guns as well. None of this is an argument for depleting our fisheries.

You are correct that fiat money has no intrinsic value. Real money like gold and silver does otherwise it would never have been used as money in the first place.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 01:15:59 AM by GA » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 10:16:52 PM »

Real money like gold and silver does otherwise it would never have been used as money in the first place.

you can have all the gold you want and die of starvation

toilet paper and salt will be worth more

If I have a high fever what good will gold do me

gotta go to the PETA meeting and get some new recipes.

 Grin laugh laugh
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GA
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 10:27:29 PM »

you can have all the gold you want and die of starvation

toilet paper and salt will be worth more

If I have a high fever what good will gold do me

gotta go to the PETA meeting and get some new recipes.
Someone who chose to stock pile gold at the expense of food and starve would be a poster boy for evolution. What you buy using money (gold) has nothing to do with the reason for the existence of money (gold) - which is as a medium of exchange. Absent government created fiat money, real money can only come into use if it has intrinsic value. If you wish to easily obtain toilet paper and salt you will need money. Other forms of obsolete and inefficient market methods such as bartering makes this much more difficult without money.

What does PETA have to do with anything?

You are of course free to send me all your worthless gold. I'll even break down and take the paper currency. Wink
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 10:30:39 PM by GA » Logged

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