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Steve
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« on: January 22, 2015, 02:33:24 PM »

http://www.cbf.org/news-media/newsroom/2015/01/22/cbf-sad-day-for-maryland

Press Statement
January 22, 2015

CBF: Sad Day for Maryland

(ANNAPOLIS, MD)—Alison Prost, Maryland Executive Director of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation (CBF), issued this statement following Governor Hogan's withdrawal Wednesday of the Phosphorus Management Tool and nitrate oxide reduction regulations:

"This is a sad day in the long fight to make Maryland waters clean enough for swimming and fishing. Governor Hogan's decision has hurt the rivers and streams on Maryland's Eastern Shore where 228,000 tons of excess manure will continue to be applied to farm fields each year, and to wash off into nearby creeks and river. The new governor rolled back 10 years of progress when he withdrew the Phosphorus Management Tool, a common sense, science-based solution to the manure crisis.

"Agriculture is the largest source of pollution to the Chesapeake Bay, and is also the cheapest to reduce by far. Many farmers deserve credit for their efforts to stem pollution from their barn yards and fields. But just as those who live in our cities and suburbs are doing more to clean the Bay, so must farmers.

"Businesses with technologies to help reduce phosphorus pollution from poultry manure are ready to come to Maryland and help ease the burden of excess manure. But these technologies  will only have a significant impact if farmers are required to not apply excessive amounts of phosphorus to their crops. Regulations create demand for problem-solving technologies that otherwise would languish.

"Additionally, by withdrawing regulations that would have reduced pollution from coal-fired power plants, Governor Hogan's decision also has put corporate interests above the people of Greater Baltimore. Nitrous oxides are linked to ozone which can be harmful to children and sensitive adults. As a greenhouse gas, nitrous oxides are 300 times more powerful than carbon dioxide. Also, nitrogen from coal plants and vehicles adds millions of pounds of harmful pollution to the Bay each year. The power industry used the same hardship argument in 2006 when the legislature approved the Maryland Healthy Air Act. In the years afterwards, electricity prices dropped, and the industry prospered.

"The Chesapeake Bay Foundation welcomes the opportunity to work with the Administration to ensure farmers have the resources they need to implement the PMT, and all residents see cleaner water. But we can't compromise on science, or accept further delays on cleaning up Maryland's rivers, streams, and the Chesapeake Bay."
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 04:47:05 PM by Steve » Logged
reds
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2015, 03:08:51 PM »

It's a happy day for Maryland. We have a new governor, who has promised to be more accountable to the people for money spent. The regulation that Hogan canceled would have spent plenty.

CBF doesn't want the money to dry up. After all they have a 3 million dollar mortgage to pay on their bay front property in Bay Ridge.

Maryland paid CBF $664,965.98 in 2014. Of which $259,621.98 was paid by DNR.

It's my understanding that there are 2000 families on the Delmarva Peninsula engaged in raising chickens for
meat. How many more jobs would we lose from this legislation, that we can't afford? It obvious that CBF doesn't care who goes out of business.  
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 03:13:07 PM by reds » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2015, 04:34:19 PM »

So you're OK with farmers indiscriminately dumping pollutants into the Bay so Tyson/Perdue won't have to raise the price of chicken?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 04:47:25 PM by Steve » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2015, 05:09:01 PM »

So you're OK with farmers indiscriminately dumping pollutants into the Bay so Tyson/Perdue won't have to raise the price of chicken?

Who pays for the rise in chicken prices? Not Tyson or Perdue, but you and I. You may want to talk to a couple of poultry farmers and find out the real truth on this regulation that has been put on hold.

What I'm OK with is, a new Governor who has to deal with a past governor's spend, spend ways. Who didn't or wouldn't say no and believed the smoke and mirrors of the CBF and others. And then put Maryland in a billion dollar hole.

This is the second time in a week that CBF's science has been overturned. ASMFC did it also on Menhaden.


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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 05:28:36 PM »

Who pays for the rise in chicken prices? Not Tyson or Perdue, but you and I. You may want to talk to a couple of poultry farmers and find out the real truth on this regulation that has been put on hold.

I think most people would be OK paying a little more for chicken if it means Tyson/Perdue are doing their part to cut pollution.

This is the second time in a week that CBF's science has been overturned. ASMFC did it also on Menhaden.

I think the science is pretty solid on this one... nitrogen pollution causes algae blooms that suck up the Bay's oxygen and kill fish and crabs.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 05:45:09 PM by Steve » Logged

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reds
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2015, 06:51:50 PM »

I think most people would be OK paying a little more for chicken if it means Tyson/Perdue are doing their part to cut pollution.

I think the science is pretty solid on this one... nitrogen pollution causes algae blooms that suck up the Bay's oxygen and kill fish and crabs.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

I don't think people would be ok. They wouldn't pay the price of a pizza ($15 a year boater's tax) so Maryland could have more law enforcement on the bay.

They have cried and moaned about the rain tax, which would help slow down the nitrogen and phosphorus that is way larger amount then the chicken industry is involved with.

I believe the largest flow of nitrogen and phosphorus comes from the susky and potomac rivers in Maryland. And most of that comes from other states.

 
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2015, 07:28:43 PM »

http://www.cbf.org/news-media/newsroom/2015/01/22/cbf-sad-day-for-maryland

Press Statement
January 22, 2015

CBF: Sad Day for Maryland

(ANNAPOLIS, MD)—Alison Prost, Maryland Executive Director of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation (CBF), issued this statement following Governor Hogan's withdrawal Wednesday of the Phosphorus Management Tool and nitrate oxide reduction regulations:

"This is a sad day in the long fight to make Maryland waters clean enough for swimming and fishing. Governor Hogan's decision has hurt the rivers and streams on Maryland's Eastern Shore where 228,000 tons of excess manure will continue to be applied to farm fields each year, and to wash off into nearby creeks and river. The new governor rolled back 10 years of progress when he withdrew the Phosphorus Management Tool, a common sense, science-based solution to the manure crisis.

"Agriculture is the largest source of pollution to the Chesapeake Bay, and is also the cheapest to reduce by far. Many farmers deserve credit for their efforts to stem pollution from their barn yards and fields. But just as those who live in our cities and suburbs are doing more to clean the Bay, so must farmers.

"Businesses with technologies to help reduce phosphorus pollution from poultry manure are ready to come to Maryland and help ease the burden of excess manure. But these technologies  will only have a significant impact if farmers are required to not apply excessive amounts of phosphorus to their crops. Regulations create demand for problem-solving technologies that otherwise would languish.

"Additionally, by withdrawing regulations that would have reduced pollution from coal-fired power plants, Governor Hogan's decision also has put corporate interests above the people of Greater Baltimore. Nitrous oxides are linked to ozone which can be harmful to children and sensitive adults. As a greenhouse gas, nitrous oxides are 300 times more powerful than carbon dioxide. Also, nitrogen from coal plants and vehicles adds millions of pounds of harmful pollution to the Bay each year. The power industry used the same hardship argument in 2006 when the legislature approved the Maryland Healthy Air Act. In the years afterwards, electricity prices dropped, and the industry prospered.

"The Chesapeake Bay Foundation welcomes the opportunity to work with the Administration to ensure farmers have the resources they need to implement the PMT, and all residents see cleaner water. But we can't compromise on science, or accept further delays on cleaning up Maryland's rivers, streams, and the Chesapeake Bay."

"Phosphorus management tool regulations "paused" in Maryland

Hogan is directing all agencies of the state government to begin a comprehensive review of the pending regulations, which would limit the amount of phosphorus farmers could apply on their fields.

He says the process is to allow public input, hearing, and full due process before they are finalized. The regulations were reportedly originally slated for publication back on December 23rd.

The tool has been the center of a debate for more than a year between farmers and state environmental leaders. Farmers are concerned that it will prevent them from using chicken manure on their fields, which would have a detrimental impact on poultry farmers. Meanwhile, advocates of the regulations feel that the tool is essential in helping to clean up the Chesapeake Bay."
http://www.wmdt.com/news/more-local-news/Phosphorus-management-tool-regulations-paused-in-Maryland/30866778
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2015, 08:35:07 AM »

 CBF is a Joke on all who beleive the bay needs to be cleaner, and an expensive joke at that. CBF has no teeth on real issues and for the most pert their science is way flawed. Too many people living in our watershed is the increasing problem every year and this cannot be stopped, nitrogen from waste water treament plantsget dumped by the tons evey year. The only thing CBF is good at is getting money to support CBF and all thier cronnies who prosper from their front of fighting to clean the bay. Please, Govener Hogan, contiune to examine and cut spending by this state and do the job you were hired to do by making the state live wiothin their means like i have to do.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 08:38:52 AM by rdbeard » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 09:00:25 AM »

rdbear, I also support and voted for Hogan.  I am so happy that "King I never met a tax raise I did not like Martin" is gone.  The problem is that taxing bastard is thinking about running for pres in 2016, and the the folks who voted for Obama twice will prob support him also, with his list of hand outs too..... Sad for Maryland, Nope not all I say Martin dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya....and that is coming from a Person who has Lived in this state for 51 years now, Not somebody from VA...........
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2015, 09:56:16 AM »

The PMT looks like a lot of science and very little common sense.  I can see why MD farmers do not like the PMT. Can you imagine doing this for thousands of acres spread out over a county or two.  50 acres in this one and 300 acres in that one over there.

The following is a list of information needed to determine the UM-PMT, as well as the source from which to obtain the information.
Information Source #1: Farm Operator
 Soil-test P converted to Maryland Fertility Index Value (FIV) units from soil-test report
 Degree of P saturation (DPSM3) predicted by Mehlich 3 from soil test report
 Amount, analysis and type of P fertilizer applied
 Application method and timing of P fertilizer application
 Amount and type of manure, compost or biosolids applied
 Application method and timing for manure, compost, or biosolids application
 Manure, compost, or biosolids analysis
 Type and width of vegetated field buffers
 Crop rotation sequence
 Tillage rotation sequence
 Conservation practices such as strip or contour cropping, buffer strips, etc.
 Artificial drainage areas (drainage ditches, tile drains, or mole drains)
Information Source #2: Web Soil Survey
 Predominant soil mapping unit in the field
 Soil permeability class
 Soil drainage class
 Hydrology soil group
Information Source #3: Field Visit
 Distance from edge of the field to the nearest down gradient surface water (feet)
 Slope of field (length and steepness)
Information Source #4: RUSLE or RUSLE2 Calculation Capability
 RUSLE “P” practices: ridge height, furrow grade, cover management condition, number of crop strips across RUSLE slope, width of crop and/or buffer strips   

VS:  VA's common sense

* X amount of manure/fert. per acre.... per season
* Can not be applied within 35 feet of any drainage gut/stream
* Has to be tilled under within 3 day of application (might be 15 days. I cant remember for sure which).
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2015, 10:07:31 AM »

rdbear, I also support and voted for Hogan.  I am so happy that "King I never met a tax raise I did not like Martin" is gone.  The problem is that taxing bastard is thinking about running for pres in 2016, and the the folks who voted for Obama twice will prob support him also, with his list of hand outs too..... Sad for Maryland, Nope not all I say Martin dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya....and that is coming from a Person who has Lived in this state for 51 years now, Not somebody from VA...........

You're right, I'm from Virginia so I know very little about the goings-on in Maryland.

When I saw this news article, I was bothered because everyone wants to see the Bay restored to its former glory... before all the oysters died... and it seemed to make sense that manure runoff from large farms was contributing to the decline.

But, after seeing these posts, it's clear that I don't know the whole story.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 12:09:57 PM by Steve » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2015, 10:19:39 AM »

MD has to do something if they arn't already. Before VA started enforcing it's reg's you could not stand it down here when they were cleaning the chicken house and spreading the manure just to lay in the fields until it rained enough to wash it in or away.  And that smell gets into everything. And stays.  We had to rush to close up the houses when we saw the manure spreaders.

Another thing VA requires, that I forgot about, is the manure has to be composted (in covered buildings) for x amount of time before spreading.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 10:58:47 AM »

Steve your right, while silting of oysterbeds can lead to thier decline the biggest killer are 2 disases MSX and dermo i think are natural occuring in the saltier portion of the bay and have been devistating to oysters. These disases seem to have gotten worse over the years as the bay becomes more polluted but not sure why. I feel that the bay may be to far gone to recover and the crab pop. has suffered as a result. 30 to 40 years ago good informed people were saying that overpopulation and over development on the bays shores were having an impact and would continue to degrade the bayand it's grasses, no one was listening then and still today.
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2015, 12:24:26 PM »

Well, think about this: If you think the Bay was much cleaner and healthier 50 or 60 years ago (which most of us believe) what has changed?
There are far FEWER FARMS and far MORE SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANTS. If the farms were the problem, the Bay would have been in much worse shape 50 or 60 years ago then it is now, but it wasn't.
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2015, 01:21:25 PM »

Mikie, the pollution 50-60 yrs ago was mostly chem .and heavy metals most of which has been stopped but stiull remains a problem to a point but sewage treatment just means making the solids non bactierial then dump it into the bay as liquid nitrogen and phosphous which cause alage blooms.
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2015, 01:23:03 PM »

Well, think about this: If you think the Bay was much cleaner and healthier 50 or 60 years ago (which most of us believe) what has changed?
There are far FEWER FARMS and far MORE SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANTS. If the farms were the problem, the Bay would have been in much worse shape 50 or 60 years ago then it is now, but it wasn't.
But there wasn't the poultry industry that is on the shore now...

"Between the Chesapeake Bay and Maryland's Atlantic coast exists
an expansive poultry enterprise.' Poultry farms on the Delmarva Peninsula,
classified as Animal Feeding Operations (AFOs),2 each year
raise 600 million chickens that produce 750,000 tons of waste.' Maryland
alone has at least 6000 "chicken houses".

The poultry farms on the Delmarva Peninsula generate
more waste than a city of four million people."

In 2006 Purdue signed a agreement that cost them (if I remember correctly) around 20k.  The agreement allows them to violate EPA regulation for 4 months of each year at their Lankford hwy plant.  They dumped 4 million gallons of waste into Parkers Creek and were fined only 38k before making the agreement.  Undecided
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2015, 02:18:36 PM »

WOW, Steve sure opened a can of worms..........

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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2015, 03:06:26 PM »

Yeah, I'm bowing out of this one!  laugh
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2015, 03:31:39 PM »

Well, think about this: If you think the Bay was much cleaner and healthier 50 or 60 years ago (which most of us believe) what has changed?
There are far FEWER FARMS and far MORE SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANTS. If the farms were the problem, the Bay would have been in much worse shape 50 or 60 years ago then it is now, but it wasn't.
There are plenty of 30 to 50 year old septic systems which have failed or are failing also.  Waterfront or streamside properties that all hits the bay also.  That is one reason I just don't understand the Wye river.  There are hundreds if not thousands of old houses on that river that their septic overflows right into the river.  Huge crabs though...
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2015, 04:10:14 PM »

Good day for working people on the shore. Bad day for liberal wackos
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