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Author Topic: All harvest of shellfish suspended @ 6:42 pm Fri 10/2 until further notice  (Read 4770 times)
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Ron
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« on: October 02, 2015, 02:00:54 PM »

Per NJ DEP Commissioner Bob Martin.

I expect this will be lifted Monday or Tuesday.
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 02:01:39 PM »

...and no, shellfish does not include crabs.    Wink
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 02:50:51 PM »

...and no, shellfish does not include crabs.    Wink



Merriam-Webster begs to differ:

shellfish
      noun shellˇfish \-ˌfish\
: an animal (such as a crab or an oyster) that has a hard outer shell and that lives in water

As does Oxford:

shellfish
Syllabification: shellˇfish
Pronunciation: /ˈSHelˌfiSH/
Definition of shellfish in English:
noun (plural same)

1An aquatic shelled mollusk (e.g., an oyster or cockle) or a crustacean (e.g., a crab or shrimp), especially one that is edible.

1.1Edible mollusks or crustaceans as food.

 Shocked Wink laugh
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 02:53:00 PM by Crab Nebula » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 07:51:24 PM »



Merriam-Webster begs to differ:

shellfish
      noun shellˇfish \-ˌfish\
: an animal (such as a crab or an oyster) that has a hard outer shell and that lives in water

As does Oxford:

shellfish
Syllabification: shellˇfish
Pronunciation: /ˈSHelˌfiSH/
Definition of shellfish in English:
noun (plural same)

1An aquatic shelled mollusk (e.g., an oyster or cockle) or a crustacean (e.g., a crab or shrimp), especially one that is edible.

1.1Edible mollusks or crustaceans as food.

 Shocked Wink laugh

this presumes the state of NJ even knows how to find a dictionary let alone use one.... laugh laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 08:16:21 PM »

won't last long . storm looks like it is going to miss us
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2015, 03:18:09 PM »

this presumes the state of NJ even knows how to find a dictionary let alone use one.... laugh laugh laugh laugh

Good point!  Wink
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 09:17:03 PM »

won't last long . storm looks like it is going to miss us

Yep won't last long The Raw Sewage being pumped and what ever being washed in to the water will Disappear Like Magic . 
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2015, 04:31:54 PM »

The ban has been lifted as of sundown tonight.   
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 04:36:19 PM »

Administrative Order 2015-11, the Precautionary Closure of Shellfish Beds put into effect at sunset on October 2, has been superseded and repealed by Administrative Order 2015-12 which goes into effect immediately after sunset (6:37 p.m.) today, October 5, 2015.  For the full AO see http://www.nj.gov/dep/wms/bmw/ao/2015ao12allwaters.pdf on the NJDEP Bureau of Marine Water Monitoring website.
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Oh, de crab, he taste so fine.
Yuh catch 'um wid a neck an' a line.
Bile de water 'til 'e good 'n hot.
Den eat de crab strait from 'de pot.

Oh, de beer, he taste so chilly.
Drinks it 'til I gets too silly.
Washin' down 'de crab an' butter.
If I doesn't fall down, I'll 'ave anudder.
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 10:20:11 AM »

You certainly are Mr. Optimism.   

Not sure if any sewage plants went into bypass mode.  I'm sure they would know that was or wasn't the case. Its reportable by law.





Yep won't last long The Raw Sewage being pumped and what ever being washed in to the water will Disappear Like Magic . 
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2015, 07:33:38 AM »

Had nothing to do with sewage plants and everything to do with the surge caused by the Noreaster.     It's common practice for the DEP to close shellfish harvests when storms cause surge and severe high tide/flooding conditions.
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2015, 10:23:20 AM »

Noreaster winds are one thing.  But the  heavy rains are another Ron.  Surges are also clean bay/ocean water now covering dirty land and eventually pulling beach stuff back into the water.  More of a hazard to navigation.  While sea towing in Raritan Bay the run off from the Raritan River often brings whole tree trunks with it.  But again its on top of the water column.

Heavy rains drown sewage plants and they can do little more than in bypass and dump raw sewage directly into the water it's coli time.

Winds and surges picking of Flotsam usually float like they got to the beach in the first place.  Then re-sink.  However, heavy rains are a whole different set of variables.  And they often sink to the bottom immediately effecting mollusks. 

I think the shutdown has more to do with stuff coming from the heavy rain than the surge or the strong winds.  And of course power otages will shut down more plants absent diesel gen back ups.

 

Had nothing to do with sewage plants and everything to do with the surge caused by the Noreaster.     It's common practice for the DEP to close shellfish harvests when storms cause surge and severe high tide/flooding conditions.
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2015, 11:09:51 AM »

Noreaster winds are one thing.  But the  heavy rains are another Ron.  Surges are also clean bay/ocean water now covering dirty land and eventually pulling beach stuff back into the water.  More of a hazard to navigation.  While sea towing in Raritan Bay the run off from the Raritan River often brings whole tree trunks with it.  But again its on top of the water column.

Heavy rains drown sewage plants and they can do little more than in bypass and dump raw sewage directly into the water it's coli time.

Winds and surges picking of Flotsam usually float like they got to the beach in the first place.  Then re-sink.  However, heavy rains are a whole different set of variables.  And they often sink to the bottom immediately effecting mollusks.  

I think the shutdown has more to do with stuff coming from the heavy rain than the surge or the strong winds.  And of course power otages will shut down more plants absent diesel gen back ups.

Frank,

It's not just about or 'more to do with' "sewage systems overloaded by heavy rains."    Other factors play into the concerns and poor water quality results that follow a heavy rain and a tidal flooding event.

Excessive/flood tides and/or heavy rain events can and do have the same effect:   They drag contaminants sitting on land into the water.    Noreasters cause a once or twice a year type flood tide and following these flood tides are poor water quality reports, usually a result of high enterococcus counts. follow.    Since clams, oysters and mussels filter the water in the bay, to harvest them during or right after these kinds of events when the water quality is poor makes them questionable for human consumption until those contaminants disperse.    High counts can and do commonly occur after excessive flood tide events that don't feature a rain element.
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2015, 11:24:25 AM »

Had nothing to do with sewage plants and everything to do with the surge caused by the Noreaster.     It's common practice for the DEP to close shellfish harvests when storms cause surge and severe high tide/flooding conditions.

With all Due Respect Please refer to your First Post and read the first Paragraph,
Sewerage is one of the main concerns if not the biggest, For the closings,  It is epidemic in NJ for The plants to over flow and discharge into the waters of NJ as many do it threw Aging, leaking systems.  Aging systems leak into NJ Water ways every day. And anytime there is Rain and or Flooding Raw sewerage is Discharge by Bypass, Hence for Safety's sake The State will Close the effected waters until Deemed safe,  During The summer ocean beaches may be closed when pollution is detected from Sewerage might add it is not detected for 2 Days from time of testing, Blame the old Out Fall Pipe Systems still in place, And Coastal Lakes, 

Respectively Yours Bill 
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2015, 11:46:18 AM »

I read it and that is boilerplate language.   

The State of New Jersey has made pre-emptive regional or complete prohibitions on the harvest of shellfish due to severe surge and tidal events countless times over the years, and it's not always about sewage.    Heck, swimming beaches in bay towns are closed all the time due to high enterococcus levels afterflood tides dragging waterfowl scat into from the lands and marshes back into the water.

Remember, I'm the guy in my town receiving the quality reports and posting the warning signs after the high readings come in, and it's not because of human sewage.   I'm also the guy who had shellfish beds in the Delaware Bay, where closures on harvesting are common after flood tides...
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2015, 01:27:16 PM »

Photos are of a typical Out fall, that Coastal Lakes and Towns have to discharge Street sewers and Lake over flow,  Many beaches are closed from the Polluted discharge after and during heavy rains, Notice The Debris along the shore line, and this is what Floated , and could be seen The Bacteria you can not see.

All this and there are Many Out Falls in Bays, Rivers, and Ocean that go out 100s of feet out of site.
The state Monitors The waters by Land a From the air, Opens and closes when needed.   
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2015, 01:43:57 PM »

I read it to and Boiler Plate Language or Not In English is States ( SEWERAGE )  It is not cookie cutter notes , or publications,  Why would a High Tide or Surge cause concerns,  Huh Huh  If not about Pollution being introduced into the water ways in One Form as ( SEWERAGE ) ,  Chemical Being next,   And part of my Job description in Maintenance ( Millwright )  and Union Rep. On Pollution Monitoring  with  constant dealings with OSHA, NJDEP, FDEP. CDEP. on a Daily basis  So I to am not with out some understanding of The issues,  Or wording in any Bulletins they publish.  

Editing  Huh Angry Cheesy
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2015, 03:48:35 PM »

Why would a High Tide or Surge cause concerns,  Huh Huh

Once again, it drags land residing pollutants that would normally not touch the water back into the water on a large scale basis when the tides recede back.   It's not just about sewage from a city sewer system.   


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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2015, 05:02:23 PM »

Had nothing to do with sewage plants and everything to do with the surge caused by the Noreaster.     It's common practice for the DEP to close shellfish harvests when storms cause surge and severe high tide/flooding conditions.

Sorry for The misunderstanding  Huh  Must of misread your statement.  huh2 where u said
( HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SEWERAGE PLANTS ). Must of misread the part were Sewerage was mentioned, along with the other pollutants,   If it had nothing to do with Sewerage and just land run off, they would have to close every time we get heavy Rain, because the out fall pipes i posted from my files dump millions of surge water along with Street, land Leaching and seepage and where Septic systems are in place we add That word ( Sewerage )   into the waters, each time, Yes you have your definition of what it states but on face Value as everyone sees it,  It is straight forward,   If concerns of Sewerage was not a major part they would not close any Waters,

This could go on and on but we went to very different schools of Thought,
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2015, 08:29:48 PM »

We're not going to agree on the effects flood tides can and do have so we're going to have to agree to disagree.
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