GUN CONTROLL

[ChrisS]

....When is the last time there has been a shoot out with an automatic weapon, much less an AK-47? Most crimes are commited with handguns....and they are not very easy to obtain, legally. The option here, is pass a more liberal "Right to carry", law!!!

[ChrisS]

.........for every crackhead that slips pass the cracks and gets a permit to carry, there will be 30 others that would gun him down when he/she proved unworthy of it's privledge!

[Seaweed]

I think the ORIGINAL intentions of the right-to-bear arms have been WAAAAAAYYYY lost and misintrepreted over modern times.  Its gone from we need the right to organize and defend ourselves, to we're stockpiling weapons of mass destruction in our basements so I'll be the last man standing during the Apocalypse.  Big difference. 

Do you think the founding fathers, when the wrote up this amendment, a time of muskets and such, ever dreamed that gangsters and lunatics today would be toting around AK-47s and Bushmasters?  I really doubt it.  Now its become a race and a contest to get the biggest, baddest, fully auto stockpile of asskickers you can, cause you think that whent he judgement day comes, you're gonna blow everybody away?  Get real!  You could step outside today and get whacked with a stray bullet and be dead....  the thousands of dollars worth of guns you've got in your basement is really helping now, is it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the constitution and guns and the rights associated with guns.... my point is that I think the original intent as been drastically altered.  JMO

[Domino]

....When is the last time there has been a shoot out with an automatic weapon, much less an AK-47? Most crimes are commited with handguns....and they are not very easy to obtain, legally. The option here, is pass a more liberal "Right to carry", law!!!

The politicians often site the shoot out with LA police not too long ago where the guys had AK-47s with armor piercing bullets (goes through the bullet proof vests the police wear).  They were also wearing type 3 or 3a body armor which stops police rounds both handgun and soft nosed rifle.  What the politicians don't cite is that their gear was illegal at the time and illegally acquired!!!!

So idea is, this is tragic and shocking to see on our streets.  I never want to see that again, but the laws were powerless to stop it so why pass more anti-gun laws?  It's not going to work.

[ChrisS]

Seaweed,
When our founding father's wrote the Constitution, I'm sure they were counting on it to be used against us, permitting 19 highjackers to crash 3 planes into strategic locations inside the US na don into a cornfeild, or 15,000,000 illegal aliens crossing the borders.......but when they wrote the second Amendment, they knew what they were doing.....and they did it right!!! A bushmaster is nothing more than a Ruger mini 14, a semi-auto shooting a .223 caliber projectile in an Army uniform.

[ChrisS]

mini 14's are cash and carry!

[CrabDog]

Seaweed,

here is the main point.  Do I need or want an AK-47 NO...but, once a law is written by the politician the words fully auto will become semi auto which then will include my remington 1187 shotgun that I deer hunt or duck / goose hunt with because it is semi auto.. much like a lot of deer rifles, and handguns. 
It they get their foot in the door it will only be a matter of time before the liberal gun grabbers will take it to that point.  Bottom line without the 2nd ammendment you would not have all the other ammendments/Constitution.  They outlawed acohol in 1919.  I recall the following decade know as the "roaring 20's"   with more crime and violence than had ever been seen before.  I believe it actually launched the real start of organized crime.  Al Capone sound familiar.  Like Bugsy and the gang they made their money off illegal liquor and enforced their fear and terroritory at the point of tommy guns and pistols.  Now it is drugs that are causing the same behavior.  Do you think if we made pot, crack and heroin legal we would see the crime go away.  NO WAY.  The thugs would just go get into something else and enforce things through their illegal guns.  I  don't think too many of them are aquired legally or are stolen from law abiding citizens.  It is a matter of symantics......If we give an inch .. the politicians and gun control nuts WILL take a mile.
I personally don't see the need to own an AK of SKS or bushmaster, but I think the previous sentence is really the point and why we are afraid of any gun control......

.......Crabdog

[ChrisS]

.....if one so chooses not to own a firearm, then they have that right......but if others choose to own, you shouldn't try to stop them. Those armed, protect those that are not.

[Seaweed]

Fine and dandy!  Points well taken.  Give inch, they want a mile, I agree.  I still see no reason anyone needs an AK-47 or such weapon...

In the meantime, I'll be sitting on my porch, musket in hand, yelling at those @&*%ing kids to GET OFF MY PROPERTY!!!!!

[ChrisS]

......perhaps the fact THAT america is armed, even with such weapons as the AK-47...could be the reason why we have never been invaded and probably never will, so long as we protect the right to keep and bear arms. Knowing what you know about America, would you want to storm the beaches of the Atlantic seaboard as an invading country???

[procrabber]

But why do you really need to own and use an AK-47?  A God-given right, fine, but whats the real reason you NEED to have that?  I have a real problem with guns like those... sure, you can kill a dear with one, but lets get to the bottom line... they are not meant for that.  Osama and his crew use those guns, and I seriously doubt they are hunting deer

the right to bear arms is not intended for those who want to hunt, nor for those who want to protect thier family from intruders, but to give the people an option to kill off thier government when the time comes.  your government is still the most likely reason you will die. ask any jew from germany, an educated chinese during the cultural revolution... any other chinese during the communist revolution, an armenian from turkey... a kurd from turkey... any non-turk from turkey...  oh and then there is the whole communist russia thing, the crusades... native americans,  do we still have time to list them all? we have cops to arrest the criminals, we just need equal fire power to the cops/military to protect us from them.  if you think that it wont happen here, so did ALL of the people listed above

[SHELLFISH]

     



New Orleans to Begin Returning Seized Firearms
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
April 17, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - More than seven months after New Orleans residents were forcibly and illegally disarmed in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the City of New Orleans will begin returning seized firearms to their rightful owners on Monday, according to a gun rights group that took legal action against the city.

"We've learned from the police that starting Monday at 8 a.m., New Orleans gun owners can get their firearms back," said Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), which has been working with the National Rifle Association (NRA) in court to force officials to return guns confiscated after Katrina struck the city on Aug. 29, 2005.

Gun owners must provide proof of ownership, such as a bill of sale, and a description of the firearm, including brand and model and the serial number or a notarized affidavit that describes the firearm.

Citizens claiming their firearms will also need proper identification, such as a driver's license. Before firearms are returned, New Orleans police will conduct a background check on the gun owner.

"Hopefully, this marks the beginning of the end to a legal battle that we've been waging since last fall," said Gottlieb, who noted that the city's action "should send a clear signal that no mayor or police chief can suspend the Constitution on a whim or seize private property, including firearms, from private citizens without due process."

As Cybercast News Service previously reported, few people objected when police last fall began gathering firearms they found in abandoned New Orleans homes to prevent them from falling into the hands of criminals.

However, the SAF and the NRA sought a temporary restraining order (TRO) to stop authorities in and around the city from seizing firearms from private citizens. The SAF said arbitrary gun seizures, without warrants or probable cause, had been reported. In some cases, police refused to give citizens receipts for their seized firearms, according to the SAF.

A federal judge quickly issued the TRO, but New Orleans officials denied that any guns had been seized and ignored the court order.

The impasse between the city and the pro-gun groups continued until March 1, when the SAF and NRA went back to court.

"The city had been denying for more than five months that these guns were in possession," Gottleib said. "Only when the SAF and the NRA filed a motion to have Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Superintendent Warren Riley held in contempt of court did city officials miraculously discover that more than a thousand seized firearms were being stored.

"Natural disasters may destroy great cities, but they do not destroy civil rights," he added. "Law-abiding citizens who are victims of nature must never again be victimized by governments that strip them of their only means of self-defense."

[Joe Crabs]

Gun control another topic dear to my heart. Seaweed. tell that to the border states. Yes there is carnage in our cities, and where, mostly the areas that have strict gun laws, poverty, losy school systems and don't or can't because of sheer numbers set a harsh enough punishment to deter murders, or other acts of crime. If you take a look the odds of someone being caught, then convicted, then actually serving a deserving sentence (No Plea Bargaining) crime does pay. And all they are doing with taking the guns away is further putting the good citizen in harms way. You have all these Salvadorian, Mexican, Columbian, Dominican, Russian, Jamaican gangs among our own destructive youth dealing drugs and just killing people. These guys are carrying Tech-9's, Uzi's, AK-47's, grenades and whatever else. They are literly taking over neighborhoods where the normal person constantly lives in fear. It's only a matter of time before they expand out in sufficient numbers with our current criminal justice system.  They are all over our schools. It's crazy out there and taking guns away from the people who need it won't stop the problem. You can't stop the drugs coming in, what makes you think they can't get guns in with our pourous borders. Too many dickheads are worried about everyone else's rights except for the the people that live here. Groups protesting for terrorists rights (AFTER 911), they are worried about walking a guy on a leash but beheadings or slaughtering millions of Africans, or putting people in shredders is cool. RD is right the reason people aren't robbing everyone in those places is because they don't know what the next guy is packing. Force with force is the only thing that seems to work.

In 1994, when my job was moving to NJ, I was working 60 -70 hr weeks with 10 - 12 hour days. I worked a long day and got snuffed on the subway, I was tired and reading a paper and a guy snuck up on me and nailed me 10 times in the face and I went down, While I was bleeding on the floor semi conscious, he continued to punch me in the head and kick me with upper cuts in the face. As I tried to crawl away he followed me and continued to take shots to the head. Before someone got to me I took no less than 25 direct shots to the head and face. The attacker never said a word and I never seen him. Some great guys threw him off me and later identified him as he got stuck on the back of the elevated train. He wasn't stopping and would have killed me. He looked as expressionless as anyone could. I had a concussion, cuts and bruises on my face and my mouth hurt for 3 weeks. Because my face never turned purple the Brooklyn Asst DA lowered the charge down to a misdemeanor assualt because he said my injuries don't justify the charge. Someone else older or that couldn't sustain the blows would have died. That's the problem with our justice system. Someone has to die or be ruined for life before they act and even then with these lenient opinionated judges they still don't do the time. To top the cherry when I called for the court date I was told the case was closed. Never notified me. They declared him unfit for trial and instutuionalized him for 90 days. The sad thing is the asst DA told be I was better off because he had no record and probably would have just got probation. I'd litterly be crabbing with the fishes. And I never got the names of the people who helped me to thank them.

Maybe once you face death and see how vulnerable you are you may have a different opinion. Now while this didn't have anything to do with a gun, there are plenty of similar circumstances that do, and they occur in your own home. And these guys are not coming in with slingshots. I vowed to myself that I would never drop my guard like that again it would never happen in my home. I can assure you and I am licensed that I would not hesitate to defend me, my family and my home. I'd rather be judged by 12 (especially in these northern states) than carried by 6.

And there are a number of issues that contribute to these problems, lack of education, lack of parential discipline (some because we can't because of laws), people don't speak English and know and obey the laws, drugs, and a very poor criminal justice system. The reality is their are a lot of ###### up people out there and taking ones right to bear arms away is not going to solve it and will only make the vulnerable more vulnerable. . And if they don't have guns they will only use something else to get what they want. Gun Control will not solve these problems.

And Bogs just something on differences in licensing fees, when I left NY (11 yrs ago) a Rifle\Shotgun permit was $179 every 2 years. A pistol license was $259 every year. In NJ I paid a one time lifetime fee of $45 for a fire arms permit and $2 for each pistol. Whose robbing who. Anyway just my thoughts on another controversial issue.

[SHELLFISH]

Do you think the founding fathers, when the wrote up this amendment, a time of muskets and such, ever dreamed that gangsters and lunatics today would be toting around AK-47s and Bushmasters?  I really doubt it.  Now its become a race and a contest to get the biggest, baddest, fully auto stockpile of asskickers you can, cause you think that whent he judgement day comes, you're gonna blow everybody away?  Get real!  You could step outside today and get whacked with a stray bullet and be dead....  the thousands of dollars worth of guns you've got in your basement is really helping now, is it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the constitution and guns and the rights associated with guns.... my point is that I think the original intent as been drastically altered.  JMO

SW, I think that if the founding fathers (framers of the Constitution) knew of modern weaponry they would have included all of them too; including tanks, howitzers etc.. They were afraid of government and that is what the second amendment is all about. The protection of the citizenry from government!

The LA Police were totally outgunned in that shootout. They procurred their weapons by taking them from a local gunshop! Because of that fiasco a lot of Police Departments now carry mini-14's in the trunks of their cars.

JC, Never heard that story before; glad you survived! Thats the trouble; it always comes fast and when you least expect it! You have always got to be on guard! Way too many crazies out there protected by the liberals!
Last year George W. gave me the right to carry concealed Nation wide!

[crabologist]

That must be a Horrible memory for you Joe . I'm glad you came out of it to tell the story . As far as the people in N.O. , I'll bet half of them don't get their's back for one reason or another !!

[mdjohn]

aah yes the AK47 - the gun that won the vietnam war.

it's the most produced rifle in the world. and works forever. My chinese AK has more than triped in value since I bought it and I have never even shot it.

Yes there are collectors out there and yes I have other guns I have never shot.

Maryland has the strictest gun laws and one of the highest crime rates. Crimmals should obey the "feel good" maryland laws

Maryland should pass a law that criminals have to obey the law. LMAO 

[CRABGUY]

But why do you really need to own and use an AK-47? A God-given right, fine, but whats the real reason you NEED to have that? I have a real problem with guns like those... sure, you can kill a dear with one, but lets get to the bottom line... they are not meant for that. Osama and his crew use those guns, and I seriously doubt they are hunting deer

BROTHER WEED, ITS NOT ABOUT "NEED"
ITS ABOUT NECESSITY
THE ROCKHEADS HAVE THEM
THE OSAMAS HAVE THEM
AND SO DO I
THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE NOT TRYING TO PROTECT HUNTING RIGHTS
OR THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE TO OWN HUNTING RIFLES
ITS ABOUT THE "PEOPLES" RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS AND FORM A WELL REGULATED MALITIA
THE PEOPLE GOT A LITTLE OUT OF HAND IN THE 1920'S
HENCE THE NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT OF 1938 MAKING IT HARDER FOR THE PEOPLE TO OWN AUTOMATIC WEAPONS
THE ACT PRETTY MUCH MIRRORS ALL THOSE FEELGOOD LAWS PASSED TODAY BY BILL CLINTON,JOHN KERRY AL GORE
AND THE REST OF THE ANTI GUN LOBBY
I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON

I COULD HUNT DEER WITH MY CROSS BOW, A SPEAR, MY RE CURVE BOW, MY C.V.A. 50 CAL 
ONE OF MY 15 SHOTGUNS EVEN ONE OF MY HANDGUNS
I CAN ALSO HUNT WITH ONE OF MY AK-47S OR FAL OR MOSIN NAGANT, AND SO ON AND SO ON
I HAVE A CHOICE
THANKYOU THOMAS JEFFERSON

[Joe Crabs]

That must be a Horrible memory for you Joe . I'm glad you came out of it to tell the story . As far as the people in N.O. , I'll bet half of them don't get their's back for one reason or another !!

Rick, the guy plays stupid for 90 days, he's out no criminal record, and the next time he kills someone, and it doesn't cost him a dime. And then people wonder how this happens or why someone catches a robber in his house and beats the [curd] out of him and he gets sued. F'd up. Meanwhile there are fatherless kids, families can't pay their rent, thousands of dollars in damages. lives of hard working law abiding citizens ruined forever, and SBags go free. >:(All I say is the next one better do the job right because one of us won't be getting up. And I wouldn't blink an eye pulling that trigger. And it changes you forever.

And Amen to you Bro, you don't defend your rights and these pinheads will take them away.

[crabologist]

Right there with you on that Joe . I agree , you can't let your guard down no matter where you are any more ! Take care ...........................

[ChrisS]

Crabguy,
Thank you for removing this from my turkey thread and placing it to itself. I was starting to think I was a criminal!
I appreciate it.
C.")