August 14, 2020, 12:32:07 AM
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
 
 
 
Total time logged in: 0 minutes.
 
   Home   Help Login Register  

     
 

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Link to Shellfish Water Quality Newstory  (Read 2377 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
firelt5
Registered User

Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 337
Location: Ocean County, The Jersey Shore, Jersey Strong





Ignore
« on: November 25, 2016, 02:39:23 PM »

http://www.app.com/story/news/health/2016/11/25/shellfishing-map-water-quality-nj/94421738/
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 10:40:52 AM by Ron » Logged
samiam
Registered User

Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 463
Location: Great Egg Harbor basin




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2016, 08:24:45 AM »

Interesting map and data, thanks. Potentially more useful than the static classification maps in pdf form. A large number of measurements in the table are tagged with reference to a remark "K". I wasn't able to find the explanation of that remark listed anywhere. I also notice that some stations occasionally show huge spikes (over background levels) in the fecal coliform counts. Do you have a link or other information for the table of remarks and explanations, or for the methods used to collect, analyze, and classify the samples? Thanks.
Logged
Capt. Frank
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2230
Location: Suffern NY



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2016, 12:21:00 PM »

IT seems they say things every time.  Reality check is WHAT RAIN RUNOFF?    This Summer should have been the cleanest waters following their logic from lack of runoff.

This year were classically  low summer rains.  But they say the same thing no matter what.  Is it a guess.


Logged

Capt. Frank
"HEAT SEEKER"
Chief Instructor
  NJBoatingCollege.Com
  (201) 716-2883 NJ Classes
  (212) 465-3992 NY Classes
  "We teach.  NOT just read to you."
samiam
Registered User

Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 463
Location: Great Egg Harbor basin




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2016, 07:30:58 AM »

IT seems they say things every time.  Reality check is WHAT RAIN RUNOFF?    This Summer should have been the cleanest waters following their logic from lack of runoff.

This year were classically  low summer rains.  But they say the same thing no matter what.  Is it a guess.



The underlying data from what appear to be actual sample measurements are there along with dates taken. I noticed some very steep spikes in the FC counts above the norm for many stations. If someone wanted to badly enough, it should be possible to a) see if the spikes have any correlation to the times when we did get heavy rains; and b) see if there is any increase in the "background" FC count after such events, and how long that increase lasts. I don't have time for that exercise now, but if I get bored enough this winter, I might attempt it. I never regarded the maps (either variety) as absolutes, just guidelines. Just looking at the station locations, there is enough variation in the distribution that many potential sites are not well covered. On the other hand, any information is better than none at all. Personally, I will look at all the available data for a location before clamming there, and draw my own (drastically leaning toward the safe side) conclusions. I'll most likely set up a depuration tank, as well. I also don't raw clams, which helps lessen the risks.
Logged
Capt. Frank
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2230
Location: Suffern NY



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2016, 12:39:42 PM »

In 2016 how many heavy rains did we have?   We have few rains at all.  Much less what qualifies as HEAVY RAINS    It's a statewide drought emergency.

They guess at the cause often.  If they know why all you'd have to do is fix that cause.  

Some blame the racetrack run off in the Sink. If you look at a map that is totally ridiculous unless the runoff hopped in a plane a flew 3 miles over 2-3 towns.


The underlying data from what appear to be actual sample measurements are there along with dates taken. I noticed some very steep spikes in the FC counts above the norm for many stations. If someone wanted to badly enough, it should be possible to a) see if the spikes have any correlation to the times when we did get heavy rains; and b) see if there is any increase in the "background" FC count after such events, and how long that increase lasts. I don't have time for that exercise now, but if I get bored enough this winter, I might attempt it. I never regarded the maps (either variety) as absolutes, just guidelines. Just looking at the station locations, there is enough variation in the distribution that many potential sites are not well covered. On the other hand, any information is better than none at all. Personally, I will look at all the available data for a location before clamming there, and draw my own (drastically leaning toward the safe side) conclusions. I'll most likely set up a depuration tank, as well. I also don't raw clams, which helps lessen the risks.
Logged

Capt. Frank
"HEAT SEEKER"
Chief Instructor
  NJBoatingCollege.Com
  (201) 716-2883 NJ Classes
  (212) 465-3992 NY Classes
  "We teach.  NOT just read to you."

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

samiam
Registered User

Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 463
Location: Great Egg Harbor basin




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2016, 09:19:05 AM »

In 2016 how many heavy rains did we have?   We have few rains at all.  Much less what qualifies as HEAVY RAINS    It's a statewide drought emergency.

They guess at the cause often.  If they know why all you'd have to do is fix that cause.  

Some blame the racetrack run off in the Sink. If you look at a map that is totally ridiculous unless the runoff hopped in a plane a flew 3 miles over 2-3 towns.


Yes, but there were some heavy rains over the Summer. I seem to recall that there was also a higher incidence of localized heavy rains than in a typical year (possibly because there were fewer storm systems producing heavy rains.) Checking the correlation between some of those storms and a 5 - 10x spike in FC at specific measuring stations could suggest that the attributed causation is correct, or debunk it. I'd consider anything that improves the accuracy of these maps to be a win. The state is spending the money anyway.
Logged
Capt. Frank
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2230
Location: Suffern NY



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2016, 11:09:53 AM »

I don't know maybe north NJ is different?   You can count the times it rained up here on your hands in the last six months.  Downpours?  Maybe 2-3 since Spring.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 12:22:36 PM by Capt. Frank » Logged

Capt. Frank
"HEAT SEEKER"
Chief Instructor
  NJBoatingCollege.Com
  (201) 716-2883 NJ Classes
  (212) 465-3992 NY Classes
  "We teach.  NOT just read to you."
Ron
Lifetime Member
Global Moderator
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 20205
Location: Somers Point, NJ



RonMeischker https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=220842455&trk=nav_respon RMeischker
WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2016, 03:37:04 PM »

There were downpours. 
Logged

Blue Crab Advisor to the NJ Marine Fisheries Council

11th Annual Assault on Patcong Creek Crabbing Tournament & BBQ
America's Largest Crabbing Tournament
June 26 & 27th, 2020
Somers Point, NJ

http://www.assaultonpatcongcreek.com

To Register:
http://assaultonpatcongcreek.com/the-crabbing-tournament/tournament-registration/

Check out the tournament's page on Facebook!
https://www.facebook.com/assaultonpatcongcreek
Capt. Frank
Lifetime Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2230
Location: Suffern NY



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2016, 12:15:20 PM »

Ron,

There's a big difference in this years rain fall.  Monmouth county and Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers in Monmouth county are 4 inches UNDER normal rainfall.   While Cape May county down your way is 5.8 inches ABOVE normal rainfall.

That's a nine inch difference.    Check out the Map attached.   yes it rained.  But nothing like yesterday with a few inches.  And hours of steady rain.  With the drought the ground absorbs the rain.  You need to saturate the ground first to get run off to even start.  That's when trees get uprooted.  Down your way, is obviously a different number as the attached map shows.

As I said we had far fewer big rains this summer.  I know because I work the tow boat weekends and had no weekends washed out.  And maybe a few hours here or there.  I worked 3x the number of tow boat days I averaged the past 5 years.

It was almost impossible this summer to get a crab voyage rescheduled due to weather.  I'm sure Cliff and Gary had the same experiences.  A GREAT WEATHER SUMMER.




http://www.weather.gov/marfc/NJPrecipitation365Day


There were downpours.  
Logged

Capt. Frank
"HEAT SEEKER"
Chief Instructor
  NJBoatingCollege.Com
  (201) 716-2883 NJ Classes
  (212) 465-3992 NY Classes
  "We teach.  NOT just read to you."
Ron
Lifetime Member
Global Moderator
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 20205
Location: Somers Point, NJ



RonMeischker https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=220842455&trk=nav_respon RMeischker
WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2016, 07:30:48 PM »

Ron,

There's a big difference in this years rain fall.  Monmouth county and Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers in Monmouth county are 4 inches UNDER normal rainfall.  



It's not cumulative rainfall that's the problem.   It's a rapid volume downpours and/or severe high tide events that cause high test results by washing debris (see animal [curd]) into the water. 

Remember, I am the guy receiving and reviewing the water quality data for our the swim beach in my hometown so this is a subject I am pretty well-versed in.
Logged

Blue Crab Advisor to the NJ Marine Fisheries Council

11th Annual Assault on Patcong Creek Crabbing Tournament & BBQ
America's Largest Crabbing Tournament
June 26 & 27th, 2020
Somers Point, NJ

http://www.assaultonpatcongcreek.com

To Register:
http://assaultonpatcongcreek.com/the-crabbing-tournament/tournament-registration/

Check out the tournament's page on Facebook!
https://www.facebook.com/assaultonpatcongcreek

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
 
Home
 
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder


Google visited last this page December 30, 2019, 12:55:36 PM
wordpress