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Author Topic: Blue Crab Industry Advisory Committee Meeting  (Read 18626 times)
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Crab U Later
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« Reply #80 on: May 16, 2017, 07:26:19 AM »

Guys....It;s obvious The troll knows the answer to the questions before they are asked.

He/she was either in the room at the meeting or has the agenda of the meeting. And you don't get the agenda unless you are on the committee or DNR.

Is Steve giving away lifetime memberships again or does $100 bills fall from the ski?

Not a troll but to each his own was at the meeting and listened to what was said. And you are wrong the agenda is posted on DNRs website for the meetings.
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reds
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« Reply #81 on: May 16, 2017, 07:32:33 AM »

Not a troll but to each his own was at the meeting and listened to what was said. And you are wrong the agenda is posted on DNRs website for the meetings.

I wasn't posting about you.

Please put the address to the agenda outcome or results of DNR's talk, on the Crab advisory meeting that just took place.

Thanks
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Neither Crab
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« Reply #82 on: May 16, 2017, 02:11:05 PM »

Nothing changes on July 1st. It's business as usual until the General Assembly reviews Natural Resources Statue 4-803  That meeting is expected to take place in July.  Red Beard was correct about as of now the only changes that were being considered were 1 hr. extra earlier start time for the 3 summer Holidays.  Memorial Day weekend, July 4th. and Labor day weekend. The first 2 Holidays  wont make it anyway. It sure has been confusing.   www.lawserver.com/law/state/maryland_laws_natural_resources_4-803
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evinrude 130
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« Reply #83 on: May 16, 2017, 03:28:43 PM »

Is every new traffic law advertised?  Is every new law for any matter advertised?  NO is the correct answer, so get off your soapbox talking about Belton and Hogan should do a better job informing everyone.  It is YOUR job to keep up.  



 Think about it, new laws are made public in the media. Yes, new traffic changes are posted on roads for all to see.  Every year when I purchase a fishing license, the lady gives me a current booklet on rules and regulations. Does that happen for the industry members ? If changes are made to old rules, Belton and Hogan have a responsibility to keep folks who  may violate the new rule changes.

Guess April 15  shouldn't be broadcast on the local TV stations every year. Reminding folks to file or get the IRS on them.  Time changes twice a year too, how many people would remember what day that occurs on.
 Check out the signs on construction sites. Reminding folks about safety. The no smoking signs, bet select folks hate those signs. Speed limit signs, yield, stop, all necessary because folks need to know.

Finally, the best excuse a violator has is that he wasn't aware of the new rules or laws. Judges realize that could happen. Soapbox, no, not at all. You have to make every effort to let folks know or else, bad things could happen.

 Expecting people to already know is interesting, for some it could be.  To expect them to keep up with changes, would never think that could be a 100% thing.  Especially if the changes weren't broadcast on the media to the public.
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Crabbyd
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« Reply #84 on: May 16, 2017, 03:35:37 PM »

Think about it, new laws are made public in the media. Yes, new traffic changes are posted on roads for all to see.  Every year when I purchase a fishing license, the lady gives me a current booklet on rules and regulations. Does that happen for the industry members ? If changes are made to old rules, Belton and Hogan have a responsibility to keep folks who  may violate the new rule changes.

Guess April 15  shouldn't be broadcast on the local TV stations every year. Reminding folks to file or get the IRS on them.  Time changes twice a year too, how many people would remember what day that occurs on.
 Check out the signs on construction sites. Reminding folks about safety. The no smoking signs, bet select folks hate those signs. Speed limit signs, yield, stop, all necessary because folks need to know.

Finally, the best excuse a violator has is that he wasn't aware of the new rules or laws. Judges realize that could happen. Soapbox, no, not at all. You have to make every effort to let folks know or else, bad things could happen.

 Expecting people to already know is interesting, for some it could be.  To expect them to keep up with changes, would never think that could be a 100% thing.  Especially if the changes weren't broadcast on the media to the public.

How many new laws were enacted in Maryland on October 2016?  Don't look or research, tell me off the top of your head?

Ignorance of the Law is No Excuse! 
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"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, a crab in one hand, a beer in the other, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!"

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rdbeard
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« Reply #85 on: May 16, 2017, 03:41:02 PM »

Your just WRONG, ignorance of the law has NEVER been an excuse. TV stations are not the goverment, have you ever seen a goverment add about filing your taxes, they wish you forgot so the can fine you and add intrest until you do pay. Commecial crabbers better [dang] well know what laws apply to them or else.Recs don't have to know but can easily find out,or as easy as we can. why don't youi attend these meeting and stop GRAND STANDING ON YOUR SOAP BOX, what differance does it make to you what our rules and laws are, you gonna snitch us out.WTF
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Seaweed
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« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2017, 08:42:35 PM »

Its gonna be a REAL sh!tshow come July 2 if these laws change.  Half the people out there now don't know the current rules that were put in place 10 years ago.
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evinrude 130
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« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2017, 09:06:35 PM »

Its gonna be a REAL sh!tshow come July 2 if these laws change.  Half the people out there now don't know the current rules that were put in place 10 years ago.

 Time will tell. How the DNR handles first time offenders will be interesting. Most likely slap on the wrist. It's happened before. Just look up the names of folks who are given citations or tickets by the DNR , on MD judiciary.  Some have numerous tickets, but only a minor fine. Lot of repeat offenders.

 Still think an all out effort should be made to let folks know about the changes.
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evinrude 130
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« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2017, 09:12:56 PM »

http://research.lawyers.com/ignorance-of-the-law-may-be-an-excuse.html

State and federal governments cannot pass secret criminal laws and then prosecute an unwary offender. (This only happens in totalitarian regimes and in the novels of Franz Kafka.) Criminal laws must be enacted through a public process in the state or federal legislatures, and those laws must be published in accessible places such as official volumes containing the penal code, or on a government website.

Sometimes the law criminalizes behavior that might be lawful in some places. For example, it might be okay to park along the shoulder of a particular highway, but in some stretches, the highway department posts “No Parking” signs to alert drivers that here, no parking is allowed. These signs give fair warning; without them, drivers cannot be expected to know the rule, and would have a good defense if they are ticketed.

Because our government has long-established procedures for making laws known, insufficient public notice is rarely an available defense. However, where defendants are charged with violating a brand new law that criminalizes behavior that is perfectly lawful in other places, those individuals may be able to assert their ignorance as a defense. The availability of the defense, however, will turn not only on a defendant’s lack of knowledge and the government’s lack of notice, but also on the particular wording of the criminal law in issue


People can use this as an excuse.
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lucecreek crabber
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« Reply #89 on: May 17, 2017, 10:42:39 AM »

"you gonna snitch us out.WTF"

Really, is that your answer? Also, all the laws are everyone's business. What commercial crabbers do effect all crabbers. In regard to "snitching", It shouldn't bother you if you have nothing to snitch about. When I have come in from late night fishing trips, I have seen crabbers at 3:30AM running their lines and"knocking" crabs of their line. Knocking them into the net and dumping them in a basket. There is no real way to monitor these people. As always, the honest people pay the price for the few that cheat the system. I'm not trolling, just keep the it's only our business stuff out of the discussion and understand what the law is trying to do, successfully or not. 
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rdbeard
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« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2017, 10:56:25 AM »

So you read my post and paste and copy only the last 5 words?? So have you read all of this topic and the comments made. I won't defend myself because there's nothing to defend here.BTW not you your bussiness either since you not from this state but are you commercial? Please add something else so i can determine if your a troll or not.
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lucecreek crabber
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« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2017, 12:36:59 PM »



Let me address your points one at a time. I pasted that portion because it is offensive. You seem to get aggressive anytime someone wants to simply ask a question. What I said I have seen, I have. In regard to where I'm from, I was born and raised in MD. I held a comm license in the 70's, probably before you were born. I live in VA because of family issues on my wife's side. Enough of a bio to have input as to how I feel? I have always thought comms should start at the same earlier time to allow DNR to monitor whats going on. To really monitor whats going on from the large number of recs ( who often start early) to comms it would take 100 DNR officers.  Not looking to offend the honest crowd on either side, but you don't need to look far to see people breaking the law. Call me a troll if you like, but I'm an honest one.
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rdbeard
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« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2017, 01:28:39 PM »

I get your points . The start times will never make a differance because i have only seen 1 dnr boat - officer before daylight in 10 years. That being said i start dippen at legal time always. If they make everyone start at same time it won't be good, too many crabbers competing for good bottom, it will make for some tense time on the water. some time ago i had a problem with some drunk rec crabbers well before daylight and i had a young son on board that morning. They tried to board my boat after arguing about me laying over them and i was not over them. to be safe i called 911 to dnr . their reply was can't you all just get along. if my son was not there i wouldn't have calledand handled it my self. You have to read the one posters points to understand my anger. PS i don't consider it offencive to tell a rec crabber that my rules and laws as a comm. crabber are non of his biz. if he wants to know it's his responsablity to find out,just like me.
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lucecreek crabber
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« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2017, 01:36:27 PM »

Thank you for the thoughtful post. All I can say is I hope its a good safe season. Respect on the water is even more important than on land. There is always the crazy ones that get tempers high and ruin the day. Sometimes it's hard to rise above. Have a good year.
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ChrisS
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« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2017, 02:29:35 PM »

I don't see what difference a start time for a commercial crabber or recreational crabber, makes.

Recreational crabbers are only allowed so much, so who cares when and how long it takes them in a 24 hr period to do so.

Commercial crabbers are not restricted as much, so allowing them to crab when they wanted to, would eliminate a lot of issues on the water as less would be fighting for the same spot.

The answer here, is harvest reporting, just like the big game check in. Call in your crabs at the end of your day. Get confirmation and better have it handy when you come off the water.....whether your recreational or commercial. Check in your crabs in!

It seems the real issue, is enforcement or lack of......and you know what? That's not MY problem!!!

You got 50 new supercharged hot rods police cars with more lights than Christmas trees at every tunnel. New chargers, Taurus, F350S, Expeditions, Impalas, Harley Davidsons....BMWs.............you can spare some money for NRP.
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–noun 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty

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Mr. Breeze
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« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2017, 09:08:57 PM »

With regard to the early start time and the new law.  The bill is passed and will become law on July 1.  However, it won't actually be in effect until DNR writes the regulation which will be used to enforce the it.  Sarah Widman told me that they can't even begin to write the regulation until the bill becomes law on July 1.  Those of you who were at the meeting know that I brought this bill to the committee's attention.  Afterward, Sarah and I went thru the regs to try to get straight what the regs currently read.  Today I got a follow-up email on the subject.  Here it is.  Hopefully this will help some to understand.  Here is the email.

Hey Richard,

So I read through the laws ten more times today and talked to Jacob.  You can set your trotlines at any time.  That provision you and I were reading through was only applicable if we set the workday to begin more than 1 hour before sunrise.  If we do that, then the set time is the same as the catch time in the regulation (except now on those six days passed in the bill). 

So you are correct!  You can set whenever, because we have not implemented an earlier catch time.  Here's the full law (how it is right now, it will change when the holiday provision goes into place but that only adds a section):
(b)    (1)   The Department may not adopt regulations to:
(i)   Restrict a tidal fish licensee who catches crabs using trotline gear to a workday of less than 8 hours per day, excluding time spent setting or taking up gear; or
(ii)   Establish time restrictions on a tidal fish licensee using trotline gear for setting and taking up gear.
(2)   If the Department authorizes the workday to begin earlier than 1 hour before sunrise, then:
(i)   The Department may not adopt regulations to restrict a tidal fish licensee who catches crabs using trotline gear to a workday of less than 11 hours per day, including time spent setting or taking up gear; and
(ii)   Trotline gear may not be set earlier than the catch time established by the Department.

OK - does that make sense now?  It makes way more sense to me, not sure why I couldn't wrap my head around last Thursday.  So when we put the regs in, they will be like the normal time frames which is no set time because those days are exempted from (b)(2).  Let me know if you have any questions.

Sarah
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ChrisS
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« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2017, 09:20:28 PM »

What I can't wrap my head around, is who brought this up and why?
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evinrude 130
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« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2017, 09:23:53 PM »

With regard to the early start time and the new law.  The bill is passed and will become law on July 1.  However, it won't actually be in effect until DNR writes the regulation which will be used to enforce the it.  Sarah Widman told me that they can't even begin to write the regulation until the bill becomes law on July 1.  Those of you who were at the meeting know that I brought this bill to the committee's attention.  Afterward, Sarah and I went thru the regs to try to get straight what the regs currently read.  Today I got a follow-up email on the subject.  Here it is.  Hopefully this will help some to understand.  Here is the email.

Hey Richard,

So I read through the laws ten more times today and talked to Jacob.  You can set your trotlines at any time.  That provision you and I were reading through was only applicable if we set the workday to begin more than 1 hour before sunrise.  If we do that, then the set time is the same as the catch time in the regulation (except now on those six days passed in the bill). 

So you are correct!  You can set whenever, because we have not implemented an earlier catch time.  Here's the full law (how it is right now, it will change when the holiday provision goes into place but that only adds a section):
(b)    (1)   The Department may not adopt regulations to:
(i)   Restrict a tidal fish licensee who catches crabs using trotline gear to a workday of less than 8 hours per day, excluding time spent setting or taking up gear; or
(ii)   Establish time restrictions on a tidal fish licensee using trotline gear for setting and taking up gear.
(2)   If the Department authorizes the workday to begin earlier than 1 hour before sunrise, then:
(i)   The Department may not adopt regulations to restrict a tidal fish licensee who catches crabs using trotline gear to a workday of less than 11 hours per day, including time spent setting or taking up gear; and
(ii)   Trotline gear may not be set earlier than the catch time established by the Department.

OK - does that make sense now?  It makes way more sense to me, not sure why I couldn't wrap my head around last Thursday.  So when we put the regs in, they will be like the normal time frames which is no set time because those days are exempted from (b)(2).  Let me know if you have any questions.

Sarah



 Nice job by Sarah responding to you.
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Mikie
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« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2017, 09:32:39 PM »

So, in other words, if they set an earlier start time on the 6 days in the Bill you can't set your trotline on THOSE days before the new legal start time.
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reds
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« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2017, 06:09:57 AM »

So, in other words, if they set an earlier start time on the 6 days in the Bill you can't set your trotline on THOSE days before the new legal start time.

Which means you don't gain anything, because of the time it takes to set gear.
 
You could actually lose your lay or get in a conflict over it.

It's best the bill is put in a drawer and forgotten.
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