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Author Topic: Decreasing male-to-female blue crab ratio concerns scientists  (Read 12119 times)
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jack1747
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2019, 04:52:15 PM »


4. Lowering an "A" from 93 to 90, and soon to be 85
"NC bill proposes changing school performance grading scale, sets 'F' at 39% or lower. "
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"Helping to Moderate the BCA since 2003" "I've gotten to the point in my life where I no longer give a [shiz] what people think, I'm not going to take any [shiz], because, frankly my dears, I am NOT in the [shiz] business." Quote from Suzy. :-)
jack1747
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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2019, 04:53:44 PM »

We are not allowed to criticize grammar around here, so I am told. LOL. Perhaps I should have made that item #11 in my last post.
You can correct me anytime.  I like doing things correctly.  Smiley
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"Helping to Moderate the BCA since 2003" "I've gotten to the point in my life where I no longer give a [shiz] what people think, I'm not going to take any [shiz], because, frankly my dears, I am NOT in the [shiz] business." Quote from Suzy. :-)
reds
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2019, 09:12:32 AM »

Have you ever seen a contractor work themselves out of a job?  
make sure they have a job. E
These scientist are nothing more then contractors.

If there isn't a problem then there isn't a job......

d has the right idea. They are smart enough coming out of college to make sure they have a job. Even if they have to make a problem.
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Wallco99
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2019, 10:36:15 AM »

Have you ever seen a contractor work themselves out of a job? 

These scientist are nothing more then contractors.

If there isn't a problem then there isn't a job......

Great point, D. That is also one of the driving forces that keeps big pharma and several government agencies alive and so powerful. First, create a solution, then, fabricate a problem to justify that solution.
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evinrude 130
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2019, 02:06:08 PM »

According to some , the Bay Journal is not to believed, LOL. According to this article the regulation changed has improved the crab population.  Without the scientists, and the regulation change they ask for, crabbing could be worse then ever, SMH.

 Not surprised some would accuse the scientists of protecting their jobs. Deflection? Discrediting their research?  But most folks would do that in what ever field they work on, right? LMAO Even crabbers do what they can . Say it enough times and maybe folks will believe it, even if there's no factual proof.

"The concern stems in part from actions Maryland and Virginia took in 2008 when, after a string of years when crab populations hovered near historic lows, they issued regulations aimed at sharply reducing the female crab harvest. The intent was to give female crabs a greater chance to survive and reproduce.

A blue crab stock assessment completed last year credited those actions with contributing to a recent rebound for blue crabs in the Bay. But the assessment also noted that harvest changes were altering the ratio of males to females which, it cautioned, could result in fewer than expected crabs in the future if that resulted in "sperm limitation." The assessment said it lacked information about the point at which an altered sex ratio would affect the blue crab numbers, but said it should be a research priority.


But Fegley was skeptical about making recommendations aimed at achieving specific sex ratios within tributaries during the spawning season, which would require complex — and likely difficult to enforce — regulations. She said research would need to clearly show that sperm limitation is a problem for blue crabs, noting that crab recruitment, the amount of young crabs entering the system, has been generally increasing since regulations were implemented."
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crewstation
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2019, 03:02:03 PM »

Are some of you guys saying that there's NOT a problem? 
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Oh, de crab, he taste so fine.
Yuh catch 'um wid a neck an' a line.
Bile de water 'til 'e good 'n hot.
Den eat de crab strait from 'de pot.

Oh, de beer, he taste so chilly.
Drinks it 'til I gets too silly.
Washin' down 'de crab an' butter.
If I doesn't fall down, I'll 'ave anudder.
crewstation
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2019, 03:03:56 PM »

Here are 10 things that absolutely ruined the millennial generation, and help contribute to their "entitled" attitudes:

1. Bike helmets
2. Trampoline nets
3. "Everybody gets a trophy"
4. Lowering an "A" from 93 to 90, and soon to be 85
5. Medication for every NORMAL childhood problem that's given a special acronym by a doctor
6. VIDEO GAMES and CELL PHONES
7. Coddling
8. Parents at bus stops
9. Facebook, Twitter, and every other ridiculous form of social media. (With exception of the BCA, of course)
10. Liberal teachers at EVERY level of education

You're a goddamn genius Rick!  Unless you stole that from someone else.  Then you're just a plagiarizer.  But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.   Wink
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Oh, de crab, he taste so fine.
Yuh catch 'um wid a neck an' a line.
Bile de water 'til 'e good 'n hot.
Den eat de crab strait from 'de pot.

Oh, de beer, he taste so chilly.
Drinks it 'til I gets too silly.
Washin' down 'de crab an' butter.
If I doesn't fall down, I'll 'ave anudder.
Wallco99
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« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2019, 03:32:04 PM »

You're a goddamn genius Rick!  Unless you stole that from someone else.  Then you're just a plagiarizer.  But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.   Wink
No plagiarism here Mike. I refused to let my kids wear bike helmets and would not invest in a net for the trampoline. As far as my kids feeling smarter with a lower "A" value, well, that was out of my control. But the West Chester School District did hear my opinion on this, and quite vocally I might add. These are all items that have bothered me for several years, and I'm sure there are some I left out.
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Crabbyd
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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2019, 07:10:49 PM »

According to some , the Bay Journal is not to believed, LOL. According to this article the regulation changed has improved the crab population.  Without the scientists, and the regulation change they ask for, crabbing could be worse then ever, SMH.

 Not surprised some would accuse the scientists of protecting their jobs. Deflection? Discrediting their research?  But most folks would do that in what ever field they work on, right? LMAO Even crabbers do what they can . Say it enough times and maybe folks will believe it, even if there's no factual proof.

"The concern stems in part from actions Maryland and Virginia took in 2008 when, after a string of years when crab populations hovered near historic lows, they issued regulations aimed at sharply reducing the female crab harvest. The intent was to give female crabs a greater chance to survive and reproduce.

A blue crab stock assessment completed last year credited those actions with contributing to a recent rebound for blue crabs in the Bay. But the assessment also noted that harvest changes were altering the ratio of males to females which, it cautioned, could result in fewer than expected crabs in the future if that resulted in "sperm limitation." The assessment said it lacked information about the point at which an altered sex ratio would affect the blue crab numbers, but said it should be a research priority.


But Fegley was skeptical about making recommendations aimed at achieving specific sex ratios within tributaries during the spawning season, which would require complex — and likely difficult to enforce — regulations. She said research would need to clearly show that sperm limitation is a problem for blue crabs, noting that crab recruitment, the amount of young crabs entering the system, has been generally increasing since regulations were implemented."


Or could be better.  Amazing how for thousands of years the bay sustained itself.  Every time man tries to regulate one species it knocks all the rest out of sync.  Think about it.....  Wink
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"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, a crab in one hand, a beer in the other, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!"
capt. ron
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2019, 09:00:12 PM »

I said it around here years go.  I caught a 6.5 inch maiden female.  She should have been breed several sheds ago but there were no males to be found.  

People who sit behind desk make regulations for those who make commercial fishing their livelihood. If you haven't worked on a boat before keep your views to yourself. (THAT'S SAYING IT NICELY) It should be mandatory that you MUST work on a boat for at least 1 year BEFORE you can graduate with a marine biology degree.  Maybe just maybe we might see the RIGHT things accomplished.

Ronnie
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Crabbyd
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2019, 09:08:20 PM »

I said it around here years go.  I caught a 6.5 inch maiden female.  She should have been breed several sheds ago but there were no males to be found.  

People who sit behind desk make regulations for those who make commercial fishing their livelihood. If you haven't worked on a boat before keep your views to yourself. (THAT'S SAYING IT NICELY) It should be mandatory that you MUST work on a boat for at least 1 year BEFORE you can graduate with a marine biology degree.  Maybe just maybe we might see the RIGHT things accomplished.

Ronnie


 thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
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"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, a crab in one hand, a beer in the other, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -- WOW--What a Ride!"
evinrude 130
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2019, 09:32:59 PM »

I said it around here years go.  I caught a 6.5 inch maiden female.  She should have been breed several sheds ago but there were no males to be found.  

People who sit behind desk make regulations for those who make commercial fishing their livelihood. If you haven't worked on a boat before keep your views to yourself. (THAT'S SAYING IT NICELY) It should be mandatory that you MUST work on a boat for at least 1 year BEFORE you can graduate with a marine biology degree.  Maybe just maybe we might see the RIGHT things accomplished.

Ronnie
[/quote




Maybe, but the folks working on the boats are partially why the crab population is suffering, from years of harvesting without any foresight in regards to the future of crabbing. In the 60's, the word was"female crabs only breed once, that's why we catch them". Well that was BS, scientists found out thru research and study, that females store the sperm for more then one spawn if not caught before then.

 The poster who commented about thousands of years the crabs had no problem, is partially right. It wasn't until crabs had a monetary value did the pressure begin on catching as many crabs as you can to make a living. The watermen and recs had no problem catching what they could to satisfy themselves. Those years of  over harvesting created part of the problems concerning the crab population getting smaller.

 Thousands of years of a Chesapeake Bay being great. Then man started doing what he does best.  It's not just the crabs, it's the rockfish, oysters, blues, and other species that became fair game to catch for a living, self preservation, or a trophy.  Not giving credit to the scientists involved with protecting those species is laughable. Watermen and recs back then did not care about the future resources.

 Granted, there are some scientists that may not know enough, but if they are serious, they will learn.  Political appointees may be the worse type to be put in charge of what happens to the resources. But there are those who have spent a lifetime dealing with the resources. Unfortunately, lately, they have retired or fired for what ever reason. Folks pointing out scientists are there for the money or know nothing, are painting the scientific people with a broad brush.  Same could be said for those of us who have used the waters for years. I'm no expert, but in the 60's and 70's, I was one who didn't give consideration to the future of the Chesapeake Bay.  Now that I see the resources being smaller then the golden days, I give thanks to those who apply regulations to help the resources return to better levels.

 If the scientists hadn't done studies or research, the regulations would never had happened. Man created the problems we see in regards to over harvesting, pollution, and over development in the world.   No way was the same "Man" going to stop .  Money and self satisfaction was the norm then. Took complaining from the folks who saw what was happening to get things in perspective and to get the ball rolling to take measures to help out.   Complain about the DNR all you want, without them, where would the controls be on sustaining the resources.  Watermen and recs would continue to take what they want. Not every scientist is going to make a correct call 100% of the time.  It it's the best way  of having oversight on the resources. Trusting the recs and watermen to take steps to sustain the resources, well, what can I say.

Ask the old timers how it was "back in the day", you'll hear stories that would make you wish you were there. Not to many of the same stories could be told about today's resources being caught.

 
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evinrude 130
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2019, 10:02:26 PM »

Found some history on crabs and regulations.


By 1880, regulations were also applied to blue crabs. Prior to 1873, the demand for crabs was
confined to local residents living close by the bay. With refrigerated rail shipping beginning in 1873,
the consumer demand for soft crabs yielded high profits. By 1878, canning of crabmeat was begun
along with successful marketing, especially in the northern states. In 1917 Maryland prohibited the
harvest of sponge crabs followed by Virginia in 1926. The latter state later reversed itself in 1932,
permitting their harvest. The Great Depression, Prohibition, hurricanes and World War II caused
substantial declines in markets and harvest of both oysters and crabs. In 1936, the crab pot was
introduced into Virginia and into Maryland by 1939. For the previous 60 years, the trotline had been
the principal gear but within 20 years, the crab pot became the dominant crabbing gear within both
Virginia and Maryland.
During the 1950�s, recreational crabbing was first recognized as substantial and increasing. Later
estimates held that recreational catch could equal as much as 40% of the commercial catch. Other
finfish were also sought by commercial fishermen. In 1910, the harvest of menhaden for fish oil,
fishmeal and fertilizer began. The increased use of nets and resulting commercial regulations on
striped bass began during the 1920�s with gear restrictions and size limits. With the post-war use
of nylon nets, catches increased substantially. Supporting this, a statement from the 1928 Bulletin of
the U.S. Bureau of Fisheries indicated that while the productive Georges Bank produced about three
tons of fish per square mile, the Chesapeake Bay produced about 11 tons of fish per square mile.
Later estimates suggest that this latter figure was conservative.
Some minor fisheries also offered considerable employment to local watermen. Although the fishery
for diamondback terrapin began declining after World War I, it continued until the 1940�s. In the
early 1920�s, prime terrapin would sell for as much as $127 per dozen. Markets also existed for
the hard clams from Pocomoke Sound near Crisfield and soft clams, particularly from the areas
around Eastern Bay. The harvest of seaweed, primarily eelgrass, Zostera marina, was also important
as it was used to pack soft crabs for shipping.
With the beginning of World War II, military demands for personnel and war materiel reduced the
fishing effort on the Chesapeake. Following the war, many of the new products and equipment
produced during the war effort would be employed in the fishing industry. The harvest also
increased substantially. Within 5 years, crab harvest increased 10 million pounds annually. Within 2
years, catfish harvest more than doubled and in only a year, menhaden, American shad and striped
bass harvests increased substantially.
During the same post-war era, the increase in leisure time, good roads and dependable vehicles,
improved fishing tackle and boats resulted in a tremendous increase in recreational fishing effort,
creating the first conflicts with commercial fishing interests. Striped bass, summer flounder,
bluefish, spot and croaker and blue crabs were preferred by salt-water sportsmen and commercial
fishermen alike.
Since the 1950,s, major changes have taken place in several important fisheries. Oyster resources
declined substantially from the combined effects of disease, harvest and weather conditions; striped
bass populations declined to such a low point that a 5-year harvest moratorium was instituted,
resulting in a significant resurgence of the species with a stringent harvest quota system; fish kills
became commonplace; in spite of natural disasters, the blue crab boom continues but concern over
increasing harvest pressures by both commercial and recreational interests results in harvest
restrictions and a moratorium on new commercial licenses

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crabbymike17
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« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2019, 06:59:19 AM »

This was a cool thread.  I was impressed by wallcos ability to list things in a clear and concise manner (didn't know he could count that high).  I also liked D's accuracy on contractors.  I only depart from wallco on 1 item.  When my 10 year old son watched WWF and thinks it's cool to dropkick my 8 year old daughter on a 14ft trampoline (liberal sponsorship).  Ummm, the nets help save her from permanent paralysis (hence the requirement)Huh   Then I was informed by my insurance company that if I own a trampoline, swimming pool or pitbull, my homeowners insurance would skyrocket.  Am I missing something?  I can only summarize with, be careful of the lessons we teach our children. 
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Wallco99
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« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2019, 01:43:49 PM »

I think you should start by teaching your boy not to kick your daughter off of a trampoline. Or are you one of those parents who is afraid to discipline their children, afraid of hurting their little feelings? Before you start telling other parents what they "NEED" to do, first get control of your own kids. Kids start seeing nets, helmets, and a pill for every problem and they think they are invincible, until they get out into the real world and realize they're not even close to prepared. Lately we are beginning to see what a country of lifelong coddled kids looks like, and it's very weak and pathetic. They don't know what sex they are or what bathroom to use, they are offended by EVERY word and statue, they cannot handle not being told how great they are even when they suck, they are convinced the earth is going to blow up unless we coddle that too, they think they are entitled to everything and have to pay for none of it, and have been programmed to believe that anyone who disagrees with them is a no good, sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical, bigot racist. YEP....all from a trampoline net.
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« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2019, 02:07:18 PM »

I agree. It’s been a few years since I’ve seen a decent male holding a female. All sub 6” crabs with many in the 5” range
Then the only logical thing to do is put a Bu. limit on Male crabs over 6" ? That should go over well. Maybe a slot imit of no crabs between 6-6.5 allowed? Louisianna  #1s start at 6.5 in.
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crabbymike17
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« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2019, 07:15:00 PM »

I agree with you wallco.  So what I did after fair warning to the children was take a picture of the trampoline and posted it in a local supermarket as "free trampoline".  It was gone in 2 days.  $500 loss but problem solved. 
 Grin
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« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2019, 09:10:08 PM »

But D nailed it more than most know.  NASA's annual budget is literally $4 trillion USD.  A lot of your tax dollars huh?  There are only 18k employees.  The majority of labor expense goes to highly skilled and experienced consultants.  MIT folks, Princeton, Einstein stuff, for example.  Science is hard proven, 1 + 1  = 2.  It's not like "practicing" medicine although, medicine in USA may save your life.  Politics stinks!   It stinks like a fish from the head to the tail and that's why I'm bipartisan.  All I can say is thank God for smart people.  Hypothetical -If a crab bites Wallco's, D's or Bob's or even Phelp's finger off, a smart and educated person may be able to reattach it.  This has zero to do with politics.  I'm a humble retired rocket scientist out of JFK (ummm John F. Kennedy) Space Flight Center.  But just my history that I gave up years ago.  I'm a TFL with a CB9. Let's talk about stellar days crabbing. 
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evinrude 130
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« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2019, 09:45:23 PM »

Then the only logical thing to do is put a Bu. limit on Male crabs over 6" ? That should go over well. Maybe a slot imit of no crabs between 6-6.5 allowed? Louisianna  #1s start at 6.5 in.
[/quote



 



Interesting, most recs can only catch a bushel of males. Increasing size limits would definitely lower the chance of catching a bushel.
Meanwhile the comms get to catch and keep anything over 5 1/2"?  Or is your size limit for comms too? If it is, not going to happen. Getting commercial crabbers to put the future of crabbing first would be something I have never read or heard about before. Remember, the one group of watermen several years ago wanted the male size to be 5" all season long, SMH. 

 Logic is awesome, but money talks, logic walks. LMAO
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« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2019, 10:05:36 PM »

I don't agree with such limits rude130.  Catch them if you can, that's the fun.  When I was young and a rec I was totally missed by a 1 bushel limit.  Rather than be angry with such limits I said screw it, I'll just up to the license.  Screw the slot limit [curd], I fished too many BASS tourneys in ND  that had slot limits that pissed me off. 
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