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Author Topic: "New" trap design, any good?  (Read 1502 times)
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vw_buggsy
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« on: December 03, 2020, 03:37:46 PM »

I'll try not to be too wordy.

Hopefully my pics show up. I don't know how to make them display in this forum.

I like that topless traps nest for storage. As a newbie I don't like the idea that crabs can get out if you don't pull fast enough or not properly vs. tide and current and such.

Using the "topless trap" design as a base I adapted it to this, adding a hinged two-panel top that folds up and out of the way for nested storage and down for use. The top folds up and down easily and takes very little extra time or effort to put in place for use or storage.

Before I make wire bending jigs and make myself a bunch of them, what do y'all think? Any good?

The sides/height have been shortened to 6" to save materials and because I'm figuring with using a top I should be fine with a "low profile" 6" high design.

I should be able to fit several of these in my canoe. The lower profile should result in shorter stacks of traps (lower center of gravity). Also due to the lower profile I can get more traps per the materials making them slightly cheaper per trap than the typical topless design.

Should I bag this design and just make the regular topless trap design or does this seem promising?

-Buggsy-

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on the hook
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2020, 04:29:38 PM »

I'd just go regular, if not can the topless and do rings...Try to keep it simple, especially in a canoe..I'm using rings now and have 30 topless I probably won't use again....
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vw_buggsy
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2020, 08:06:42 PM »

Thanks for the reply.

I've tried rings and have yet to catch anything using one. I've caught crabs using hand lines in the same area but pulled up empty rings. (I have 8 of them). I've also only been out a few times really so I'm sure there are user issues here too and not just equipment issues.

I was just using the cheap Wal-Mart style double ring nets though. I can't spend a lot of money on crabbing which is why I'm  interested in making traps myself rather than just buying them. Are you using the "perfection rings"?

Buggsy
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2020, 09:19:08 PM »

No, but guessing real similar...I built mine with help of a couple on site crabbers...I've had topless for about 15+ years and after using the rings this year, I'm 99.9% sure I will never use the traps again...Mainly because of boat storage/ease of moving....Did well with them...You DO have to pull kinda steady and preferably vertical...I pulled this fall and 'IF' I lost any, I didn't know it...Really, whatever YOU think will work for YOU...
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indoe
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2020, 10:25:27 PM »

I like the design. If you already have a few made give them a try next year. I was thinking of making some ring nets this some time because the lack of storage in my small boat.
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vw_buggsy
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2020, 10:18:36 AM »

Thanks, I only have the two of them made. I made just enough to confirm the design seems workable and that they nest together properly.

I also wanted to do this and get opinions from more experienced crabbers before making a bunch of them in case there were obvious design issues I could avoid.


Maybe I'll make a couple more, but also make several of the regular/traditional topless traps to compare them to.

I might even try my hand at making my own ring nets... or at least modifying the ones I have to make them better. After looking at the perfection web site I now have some ideas why the cheap ring nets weren't working well where I was crabbing (rings crossing over each other).

Like The Hook said I should probably be trying to figure out what works for me and the best way to do that is going to be trying lots of different things this next season so/until I figure that out. Rather than investing my whole budget of time and materials over the off season into one direction, spread it over several methods and try everything I can.

I appreciate the replies!

Buggsy
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2020, 10:38:11 AM »

IMO, your designs tip up top seems novel. For your setup and purposes and practical experience with other traps - it looks good to me.  Why not give it a good test next year with them and have some pride in the lessons learned or outright success you may achieve. (So I may be just agreeing with where you are at with it.)
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2020, 01:48:13 PM »

I do have 2 questions about your trap. Why are the strings for the door at the corner and not the middle of the door? 2nd do you have something to keep the top together when they are down? I have a feeling when the trap is dropped the top might open up and block one or 2 doors.
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vw_buggsy
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2020, 08:46:52 PM »

Thanks guys!

@indoe:
?1: I haven't finalized that yet but I was thinking either a small loop of dollar store Velcro strap, or a small hook made from the same galvanized wire as the rings that hold on the doors (think of the little hook and eye bolt latches but in this case the hook will catch the other lids wire). The latter is my preference for durability but I have to confirm the hooks don't catch the other traps when stacked. In my testing the weight of the doors themselves seem to hold them in place pretty good all by themselves, but I am working on a good latch.

?2: Why does everybody else put their strings right smack in the middle of the door? I think that's the better question. As far as I can tell having the strings on the corners of the door works *exactly* the same. It's still pulling up the trap and supporting it from four points, and closing the door from one point per door, but doesn't block the door nearly as much! When I looked at other traps it just looked like having a support pole I'm the middle of a hallway to me.

Buggsy

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indoe
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2020, 09:51:06 PM »

This is just my thought and my opinion. 1 reason is you use less string. I know not a big deal. But with the sting attached in the middle of the door it keeps equal pressure on both sides of the door. There have been plenty of times a crab is caught by just the claw or half way coming out the door. If its on the other side of the string it might have a better chance of getting loose. But I could be wrong and the sting on the side is a better way.
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vw_buggsy
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2020, 10:20:03 PM »

Using less string doesn't matter much to me, but I could see where it might if you were making hundreds of traps that would add up. If you're only making 30 traps or so it might use 3-6' of extra string total, no big deal.

The non-string side being slightly weaker might be an issue. In theory the amount of closing force should be about the same across the door minus however much the wire flexes across its span. The pivot point is the same (bottom of the door), and so is the point where the power is applied (top of the door). I'm geeky so I'll see if I can actually measure the difference from side to side when I get a chance to get back in the basement workshop.

I appreciate the feedback because it helps me find and consider potential weaknesses before I'm out on the water trying to use them! That was the point.
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2020, 12:03:27 PM »

So, here is my "curly cue" latch design for the lid. You just flip it over the other lid with your thumb so it's fast and easy, and it holds the lids down well. Since it's a full circle I'm hoping it won't easily hang up on other traps when I stack them.





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vw_buggsy
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2020, 12:17:48 PM »

This post will have several pics, sorry!

I did some testing on door strength with the control strings set to the side of the door instead of the center.

I don't have anything super fancy to test with but using a gram scale rubber banded to the trap I measured 377 grams on the side of the door with the string, and 335 grams on the side opposite (without) the string.

That's a difference of about 40 grams, which isn't a lot.

I found I could stick my cold chisel in the door on the non string side (I don't have any volunteer crabs), that weighs about 3/4 lb. and lift it up pinched in by the door.

I'm pretty sure the door, even on the non string side, is more than strong enough to keep in a crab and even lift him up by a claw if he's stuck in the door.


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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2020, 10:23:50 PM »

Looks good to me.
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2020, 01:06:50 PM »

good job
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2021, 07:18:16 PM »

  Keep up with the experimentation and letting us know what works, you got some "inventor" blood flowing and that's a good thing.
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2021, 09:17:30 PM »

Just a thought VW. What do you think about (2) Hog rings on one side of the top, which will allow the top to be permanently attached, but hinged and before deployment, attach the other side with a small piece of string that you can cut off, or the  (spring rings), that you have picturered , just one in the center of the other side.  Sorry if this has already been covered. I didn't read all post.  I do however like the idea that someone is trying something different for their personal situation. Hats off to you bud.
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2021, 11:19:46 PM »

I do have 2 questions about your trap. Why are the strings for the door at the corner and not the middle of the door? 2nd do you have something to keep the top together when they are down? I have a feeling when the trap is dropped the top might open up and block one or 2 doors.
  Got to agree on the trap door lines they should be centered and go through the first row of wires. "( SEE MINE )

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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2021, 02:11:43 PM »

About 20-25 years ago crabbing buddy and me switched from 4 door box traps to topless traps.  I think we started with 12 topless and used 18 box traps to make up the 30 trap limit until we eventually replaced all 30 with topless.  Right away we noticed the topless seemed to catch more crabs than the boxtraps. We intermixed the topless in the line with the boxtraps and didn't seem to matter, topless did better.  We attributed it to the crabs were less squeamish crawling under no top rather than crawling under the wire top??  Be curious how yours do? let us know.   

BTW, i don't think I've ever had a crab crawl out the top of a trap.  Main tip, pull tight lines. (pull with tide and or wind behind the boat)
Have had a few get out that were caught only by claw, and that was with string tied in the middle of the door.  Can only suspect more claw caught crabs would get out if string was on opposite corner from them.

Also, if using ring net traps pull them in opposite direction of topless.  Pull loose lines while going into the wind or tide. The more horizontal  they come out of water, the more crabs you'll put in the boat.
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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2021, 02:36:54 PM »

   I gotta tell you buggsy you have got me beat from here to  December on your topless design . They are short and they will stack well . As for catching Crabs  go for it I know that they will work. Please keep us posted on how they work for you. I have been making my design for a long long time and mine worked well , but I can see that you have got a winner there . I presently have 30 new  with the top on just like yours complete with bait cages in them. I might sell these since I no longer go crabbing . Don't undercut yourself on your price if you plan on selling them, 12 to 15 each fully rigged.

   BGFISHHOOK1
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Get it on !
A good one to remember is !
Keep your friends close, BUT keep your enemies CLOSER !
I am nobody, and nobody is perfect, therefore I am _________!
A truth that's told with bad intent  beats all the lies you can invent.
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am ! JUST JOKING.
I thought that I made a mistake once , but I was WRONG.
Remember " A rose by any other name will smell just as  sweet  "

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